The election 2015

I took out my first mortgage in the 70`s and my memory backs up EC`s recollections. The endowment mortgage was put forward as a "no-brainer." I was fortunate in that I gained a tidy lump sum at the end of it. It would be interesting to see the split between repayment and endowment mortgages in that period. I would think the vast majority would have been endowments.
 
Desperate Dan said:
I took out my first mortgage in the 70`s and my memory backs up EC`s recollections. The endowment mortgage was put forward as a "no-brainer." I was fortunate in that I gained a tidy lump sum at the end of it. It would be interesting to see the split between repayment and endowment mortgages in that period. I would think the vast majority would have been endowments.
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thanks Dan

I didn't say at any point my experience affected 80% of people though Grass.

I'll just clarify my point..its simple really...telling people in general ...as the government does...that a good economy helps them is a blatant mislead..as the wealth of this country is distributed 80/20..that's where the 80 comes from.

In the 1980's..the 20% coined it..we had a booming economy..apparently..unless you lost your home of course..because 15..or 13 or whatever % interest rates crippled those struggling on the mortgage ladder..anyone who thinks 15 or 13 really matters that much when your mortgage has gone through the roof is sort of missing my whole point

so my point is simple really...whether this country is deemed to be doing well or not..it makes little difference to the man in the street..its a carrot with no reward either way.

Clearly..i'm not talking about extremes..although the 1980's was a time..if people were treated fairly..that everyone should have benefited..they didn't. So why on earth would man in the street care whether inflation has gone down 0.1% or employment has gone down to whatever figure they pretend is correct. It just does not aid the people they seem to want to work harder.

Its like owning a factory with 500 workers...when business is good you pay them just enough to live on and cream the rest in large profits..then when the order books are down...you lay off enough people to maintain your profits. Can you explain how factory worker has seen any benefit there from "business" doing well?..because i can't..in fact its the opposite isn't it?..when times are good factory worker gets by..when its not he struggles. So all that factory worker is doing his/her whole life..is never moving upwards financially..but can only fall downwards when times are hard. Thats how the economy works for ordinary Joe...he never benefits..can only suffer.

A real carrot for factory worker is for him to share in some of the good times..to get through the bad times...that doesn't happen. So a strong economy never helps anyone bar the profit taker.
 
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That is absolute rubbish from top to bottom ec

to claim that a booming economy makes no differenve to 80% is ludicrous
 
Desperate Dan said:
I took out my first mortgage in the 70`s and my memory backs up EC`s recollections. The endowment mortgage was put forward as a "no-brainer." I was fortunate in that I gained a tidy lump sum at the end of it. It would be interesting to see the split between repayment and endowment mortgages in that period. I would think the vast majority would have been endowments.
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Weren't thousands compensated for mis-sold endowment mortgages, in much the same way the PPI scam is re-imbursed now?
 
clivex said:
That is absolute rubbish from top to bottom ec

to claim that a booming economy makes no differenve to 80% is ludicrous
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well yes it did make a difference in the loadsamoney 1980's didn't it?...many people paid most of their wages out in just paying for their home..great times they were.. working man was really pleased with that boom

Can you tell me how in the 1980's working people actually gained from the boom?..they didn't Clive..because if your Mortgage nearly doubles it makes bugger all difference if you get any positive benefits..a few bob off this ..a few bob off that..which i don't remember happening anyway.

I don't recall anything being cut to prove that we were in boom times. All i can see was a few people getting a lot more money than they had ever had in their lives...whilst a lot of people actually got same or less depending on whether you had a mortgage or not.

Its very simple really...if wealth isn't spread around when the times are good..then only those getting the extra will notice. Which goes back to my point..if your circumstances don't change or they get worse like now..it doesn't affect you how affluent a country is does it?..its never passed on to the masses in the first place.

Its one way traffic...the only thing passed on to the masses....is the debt...profit is kept at the top. Funny how when all your traders were creaming it..they kept it..when they lost it..where do they look to get it back. What a cracking system..for some

its a bit like someone gambling and winning a grand every week..that goes on for 6 months in which time they have been holiday bought a new car etc...then they lose it all in 6 months and want their neighbours to help them out coz they are skint...but when they were in clover they never gave their neighbours bugger all. I think we a looking at selfish + greedy and irresponsible don't you in that sort of instance?

seems like that is how our system works Clive
 
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reet hard said:
Weren't thousands compensated for mis-sold endowment mortgages, in much the same way the PPI scam is re-imbursed now?
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i woman i worked with went down that road of reimbursement..but she still ended up owing 10 grand on here endowment. And she only lives in a terraced house so it weren't even mega mortgage to start with.
 
My recollection of the 80's is one of widespread hardship - not just me, pretty much the whole town seemed to be suffering. Things only got better for the economy as a whole when the Tories were sent packing and a Labour government got inflation under control. High inflation may be seen as an indicator of a booming economy, but the only people benefitting from it are those on the receiving end of the huge increases it brings.

No doubt clive will think this is "ludicrous" or "rubbish", but that's because he lives in a bubble and has no idea how the majority of people actually function.
 
If it is your recollection solely then it is you that is clearly living in a bubble.

The clear facts are that economic indicators are clear that it was a period of transformation and four easily won election s pretty well indicate that it benefited s huge number of people

sort of bleeding obvious isnt it?
 
Wasn't sure about wading in as I wasn't around in the 80s but being from Newcastle I just thought I'd comment that I'm not sure if any other former Prime Minister's death will be greeted by widespread jubilee like Thatcher's was.

There was a huge North/South divide in the 80s and the fact of the matter is that government ruined a lot of people's lives. Widespread hardship is exactly a way to describe it.

If I'm to sit deeper into my bubble, my father set up his business in the 80s and prospered, enabling me to have the opportunities I have done in my life. I see both sides of the coin.
 
If you are old enough to remember Boys From The Blackstuff you`ll remember the stunning effect it had. It was shown in 1982 and was a very accurate reflection of the despair felt in large parts of the country, particularly the North. Whatever the economic indicators say it was hardly a land of milk and honey for many, many of us.

And let`s not forget the many inner-city riots of the 80`s....many borne out of despair.
 
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Gis a job. I could do that. Go on gis it.

3 million plus unemployed - so many people were unemployed that the government had to employ people to come up with ways to try and stop counting them as being unemployed because the government wasn't doing **** to help them.
 
THe left doesn't live in the past does it? 30 years ago..

manchester birmingham and liverpool were (I believe) three of the top ten fastest growing cities in Europe last year. The first two very high up that list and of course, Leeds is very well established

i believe all have had labour councils. I recall, the Econimist being particularly praiseworthy of Manchester. And this is what it is all about. Labour now has a choice and I think it's a big one that sets the scene for the future. Voters in the north aren't blind to the fact that infrastructure and encouraging enterprise has had an effect

so is it throwing money at nationlising every thing in sight because some believe that it will bring down their gas bills (almost certainly wrongly) or build hs2 and bring those economies even closer to the worlds biggest magnet ?

forwrd or backwards?
 
clivex said:
THe left doesn't live in the past does it? 30 years ago..

manchester birmingham and liverpool were (I believe) three of the top ten fastest growing cities in Europe last year. The first two very high up that list and of course, Leeds is very well established

i believe all have had labour councils. I recall, the Econimist being particularly praiseworthy of Manchester. And this is what it is all about. Labour now has a choice and I think it's a big one that sets the scene for the future. Voters in the north aren't blind to the fact that infrastructure and encouraging enterprise has had an effect

so is it throwing money at nationlising every thing in sight because some believe that it will bring down their gas bills (almost certainly wrongly) or build hs2 and bring those economies even closer to the worlds biggest magnet ?

forwrd or backwards?
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i think the way its going it will be "backwards" Clive. I think its entirely possible Corbyn will get it.

I also think one of the reasons for that is some of what i have said..ordinary people don't see or experience these "growths" you see in the economist...and so seek an alternative they hope will make a difference to them...they are seeing Corbyn as that alternative..i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with that view tbh.

The problem with nationlisation in the past is it wasn't done correctly or efficiently..so that now when the word is mentioned it is automatically associated with ineffeciency. Its doesn't have to be that way. For instance..one of the rail lines up here was run by the local authority and they made it pay..it was then put back for tender to outside bodies..think it was part of east coast line..can't remember exactly. So it can be done..and has been done.

I personally do not believe "services" should be run purely for profit by private concerns..profit should be the aim but it should be to profit all of us. The railways have been a disaster in private hands..up here they have anyway...and we still pumping money in...so if we pumping money in..then we as a country should be reaping any reward. I certainly believe the railways would be better off in our hands. Run properly obviously..not as overmanned inefficient burdens.

Yes..i can see why Corbyn is appealing to people tbh...they have had enough of growth they cannot see or benefit from i think.
 
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It's just going round in circles but frankly it's plain wrong to suggest that only a small minority have benefited from the growth of last 25 years or so. Just is

Rail travel has rocketed in the last 20 years . Way beyond expectations. More peop,else now than anytime since 1945. I use railin South and have travelled North and within North too. It is infinitely better than unde British rail . I'd it was collapsing as you suggest that simply would not be the case
 
The winter of discontent had an equally stunning effect on people.....mainly through sh*it piling-up in the street.

It was Labour and the Unions which breathed life into Thatcher - something that the 45yo+ brigade on here should probably acknowledge, before they get too dewey-eyed about how good things were under a left-wing government.

The "80%" were fu*cked in the ass then too - just in a different way.
 
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Grasshopper said:
The winter of discontent had an equally stunning effect on people.....mainly through sh*it piling-up in the street.

It was Labour and the Unions which breathed life into Thatcher - something that the 45yo+ brigade on here should probably acknowledge, before they get too dewey-eyed about how good things were under a left-wing government.

The "80%" were fu*cked in the ass then too - just in a different way.
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i've never been dewy eyed over Labour 30 year ago..you need to be reading whats put..not what you think is being put to be fair. All i have done is tried to debunk the myth of growth affect on working man. Life at a certain level is just a struggle..no matter who is in power
 
clivex said:
Rail travel has rocketed in the last 20 years . Way beyond expectations. More peop,else now than anytime since 1945. I use railin South and have travelled North and within North too. It is infinitely better than unde British rail . I'd it was collapsing as you suggest that simply would not be the case
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They regularly talk to customers of the railways on Radio Sheffield,,,and BBC news..you are the first person i've yet heard that thinks the railways are great. The main complaints being..extortionate season ticket prices/rises..not enough rolling stock..old rolling stock used up north..new down south..not getting a seat when reservation made..the ludicrous ticket variation re prices..etc etc
 
So why are so many using the railways ? Why far more than anyone expected? i think the facts of usage are far more significant than a few local moaners

some local railways in the north have dreadful stock but far from all. I've used transpennine and it was superb. I was at Manchester a few times last year and the routes there looked as modern as any thing down here
 
EC1 said:
i've never been dewy eyed over Labour 30 year ago..you need to be reading whats put..not what you think is being put to be fair. All i have done is tried to debunk the myth of growth affect on working man. Life at a certain level is just a struggle..no matter who is in power
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Lets nail this 80%

what proportion of population has brought their own property in last 30 years? Let alone those that already owned? Is it just 20%?

Because you know what's coming next don't you?
 
clivex said:
So why are so many using the railways ? Why far more than anyone expected? i think the facts of usage are far more significant than a few local moaners

some local railways in the north have dreadful stock but far from all. I've used transpennine and it was superb. I was at Manchester a few times last year and the routes there looked as modern as any thing down here
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its not a few local moaners though....trains don't have enough coaches for the number of people that use them. Manchester?..you want to have a go on some in Yorkshire

why are so many using trains?..very simple answer..the roads up here are a joke...personally i live 12 miles from Sheffield..by road in the morning that can take well over an hour..longer sometimes..10 minutes on the train.

even if you transported folk in rail trucks..they would still catch them up here..its nowt to with a quality service drawing folk in
 
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clivex said:
Lets nail this 80%

what proportion of population has brought their own property in last 30 years? Let alone those that already owned? Is it just 20%?

Because you know what's coming next don't you?
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buying and owning is two different things Clive..nobody "owns" their own property until its paid for..and even then its only lent until its sold to pay for your old age care.
 
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i take it you don't think 20% of the people own 80% of the wealth then Clive?

or are we now going to define wealth?..wealth.. isn't owing money to a mortgage company for a start
 
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