At the risk of spinning the thread into another ISIL one (having said that the original title long ago lost its relevance) I think the issue of what? and how? are critical too. I'm not necessarily in favour of aerial bombing, but would instead prefer to do something meaningful. If we do go down the aerial bombing then I tend to the view that we should throw evrything we have at it (which isn't a lot). ISIL have many more pick up trucks than we do Brimstone missiles. We'll run out, we were heavily depleted after Libya
Just on the subject of France and our loyalty to them, you might like to recall Clive that in 1982 the French sent Aerospatial engineers to Argentina in order to rig up and arm exocet missiles for them so they could be fired against British shipping. If you want a definition of shameful, I'd suggest that better fits? We lost HMS Sheffield and Atlantic Conveyor as a direct result of this, and indirectly about 50 killed at Bluff Cove due to the loss of Chinooks on board the latter. The French caused the loss of about 75 British lives - Merci. Other European partners such as Spain and Italy tacitly supported Argentina too by forever trying to get sanctions lifted. The French did really well out the Falklands though. The word exocet went into the language, and quite a few order books of foreign governments too as Britain struggled to defend against it
My own sense is that Corbyn might have stumbled into the right decision for the wrong reasons, whereas Cameron is blundering into the wrong decision for the right reasons (albeit I don't buy this issue of national prestige - that's largely in the imagination of the political classes to whom it is important). You can only get the correct answer if you're asking the right question. I'm not sure Cameron is asking it. This isn't about aerial bombing (or shouldn't be)
There's a hell of a lot of moving parts in this, and massive capacity for it to go very badly wrong, medium term (history suggests you can achieve a short term success). To my mind at least, the critical gap in his analysis is his failure to link up an aerial bombing campaign with a ground offensive. Who exactly is he bombing in support of? He's hinted at this, but one of his own MP's who had access to intelligence information from the select committee politely blew him out the water when he explained that the FSA figure that Cameron was using (70,000) was not one that was remotely close to what they'd been briefed (it's much smaller) and also reinforced this by pointing out that a significant percentage of the FSA have demonstrated a penchant for defecting (principally to Al Nusra).
Just as a side observation, you might have noticed how our own commentators have subtly stopped referencing the Free Syrian Army but have instead started to apply a broader 'catch all' umbrella of "the rebels". I'm increasingly less convinced that a distinct FSA actually exists anymore, and if it does, it's perhaps no bigger than 10,000 - 15,000. Also, am I the only one who finds the BBC's prefix of Islamic State with the phrase "so called" just a tiny bit silly. It exists! Get real. It's not so called. It's as if the BBC are trying to prevent us referring to their existance by suggetsing that they're not really real you know (so called Santa Claus)
again I'm not goi go to read what can be said in three sentences rather than thirty pages
dont the left ever have anything other to say than "whatabout?" . Aren't you ever going to rise slightly above the dense student guardian reader. So what about arms to Argentina? 30 years ago? We are going to that small minded after Paris to start dragging taht up? Ignore everything else that the two great countries have worked on and stood for. Ignore the huge number of expats in each nation. Ignore the very nature of the disgusting attacks
lets bring up some engineers from God knows when and smugly say. "Ah yes whatabout"
Is it a fact of life that much of the left spends its life as losers looking back and harbouring every grievance whereas the real world asseses here and now and moves on?
dont you ever consider the here and now. Shall we not allie with Denmark because of the Vikings? Is everything a "ah yes but! Here's a grievance!"
Dismal outlook.
th bombing is right. All this nonsense that you don't do it without troops is absurd. You have to start somewhere so let's get started
problem? Lost of cheering putins attacks but on no not cameron. Cameron this cameron that. Rattle up the anglophobes
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