The Gold Cup 2010

Desert Orchid said:
Denman's faithful supporters might see the lengthening of his odds as a wee bonus.
Click to expand...

Yes. Denman isn't the sort of horse who puts distance between himself and his opponents by quickening between fences off of a moderate pace. With the buzz and the hoopla surrounding the Gold Cup he isn't going to be half asleep on March 19th. We will see a totally different animal then.
 
If it had been Sam Thomas it would be all his fault.

But "all action AP" is exempt from criticism.

Pathetic.
 
I watched Denman going round the parade ground (albit on TV) and thought:a) he looks heavy b) he looked out of condition and, c) out of sorts. Next to KS I love this horse (KS more). Denman looked,to me, as if he didn't want to be there? Come theGC may be a different horse. But, I don't know...
BTW: no blame to TMc. The horse looked out of sorts.
 
Turtle's fan said:
I watched Denman going round the parade ground (albit on TV) and thought:a) he looks heavy b) he looked out of condition and, c) out of sorts. Next to KS I love this horse (KS more). Denman looked,to me, as if he didn't want to be there? Come theGC may be a different horse. But, I don't know...
BTW: no blame to TMc. The horse looked out of sorts.
Click to expand...

sounds like kempton last year
 
confused now - one says looked great - one says not:confused:

one thing i did disagree with francome about was that after first error - denman was not going ok - he was going backwards
 
Euronymous said:
after the usual excellent jump at the cross fence
Click to expand...

He jumped it well today but that hasn't always been the case. I remember him making a bad mistake there on the final circuit of the 2008 AON and when I looked it up it would appear from the Raceform write-up that he made one first time round as well: "...he dived at [the cross fence] on both circuits, most dramatically on the second occasion when he met the obstacle on the way down."

Jim McGrath highlighted that tendency to take off far too early on occasions and, all in all, Denman can be classed a slightly dodgy jumper nowadays.

The first mistake today was a bad one but he looked instantly beaten once it happened and that shouldn't have been the case at today's weights. He was in the process of running well below form, even before any jumping error.

You couldn't rule him out at Cheltenham but anyone who backs him has to accept that he doesn't always give his running nowadays.
 
The first mistake today was a bad one but he looked instantly beaten once it happened and that shouldn't have been the case at today's weights. He was in the process of running well below form, even before any jumping error.

that was exactly my impression, he slowed badly
 
gus said:
The first mistake today was a bad one but he looked instantly beaten once it happened and that shouldn't have been the case at today's weights. He was in the process of running well below form, even before any jumping error.

You couldn't rule him out at Cheltenham but anyone who backs him has to accept that he doesn't always give his running nowadays.
Click to expand...

The mistake happened before the race had become in earnest, much different to Master Minded who had already sewn his race up. And if he was in the process of running well below form it matters not at all for his Cheltenham chance as it was just a trial at the end of the day.

Ultimately the people on here and elsewhere who are gonna factor in what happened last year in all this are way wide of the mark.
 
Euronymous said:
The mistake happened before the race had become in earnest, much different to Master Minded who had already sewn his race up. And if he was in the process of running well below form it matters not at all for his Cheltenham chance as it was just a trial at the end of the day.
Click to expand...

A somewhat rosy interpretation, Euro. It almost certainly matters.

It's my belief that he was probably short of fitness today, and the result have been forgivable if he had won by a short distance, or even been beaten (whilst labouring).

However, Denman has come right off the bridle turning in, absolutely whacked one, and then tried to climb over the next without a ladder (side-on footage tended toward McCoy expecting a stride, but never getting one, imo). At the very least, this race must knock his confidence. That would give rise to the suggestion that he has either gone backwards since the Hennessy, that the signals at home are very hard to read, or.......and I hesitate to say this.......that he is becoming just a little bit ungenuine??

What it doesn't do, is point the finger at McCoy (not that you have).
 
I dont think Denman is a bridle horse,
yesterday he was jumping very well until the last 2 fences, McCoy was really poor in the fall.

This is not the ideal preparation for the Gold Cup, but still has a good chance in the big race.
 
littlelad said:
If it had been Sam Thomas it would be all his fault.

But "all action AP" is exempt from criticism.

Pathetic.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure who the word "pathetic" is directed at but McCoy isn't "exempt from criticism" on here.

It's a forum. Criticise away.
 
McCoy should have waited for Niche Market then asked Denman to run the finish out of him like he did to What a Friend.
 
Turtle's fan said:
I watched Denman going round the parade ground (albit on TV) and thought:a) he looks heavy b) he looked out of condition and, c) out of sorts. Next to KS I love this horse (KS more). Denman looked,to me, as if he didn't want to be there? Come theGC may be a different horse. But, I don't know...
BTW: no blame to TMc. The horse looked out of sorts.
Click to expand...

Right with you there TF. He really looked as if he didn't want to know.

Left him well alone but also talked myself out of backing the winner, despite thinking that he looked much more the part and capable of springing a surprise.

If Denman turns up at Cheltenham looking like that he will be left alone then as well. I am a great believer that a horse can be turned out as fit as a flea but that if his heart/mind isn't in the job he won't run as well as his talent permits.
 
Isinglass said:
I was there, I think he looked magnificent.
Click to expand...

I was also there and wathced him in the parade. Thought he looked well but heavy. Now I'm not an expert on Denman and whether he carries a heap of condition anyway but it was enough for me to back Niche Marcket :(. He looked very well and just thought Tricky Trickster was a lighter type who theymight have been trying to bulk up over the next six weeks for the National. I did think turning in that Niche was in the perfect spot and doing all he could to take on Denman but isn't hindsight a wonderful thing. It was a bit like the Irish Arkle, they just went quick in front.
 
littlelad said:
If it had been Sam Thomas it would be all his fault.

But "all action AP" is exempt from criticism.

Pathetic.
Click to expand...

granger said:
A fair comment
Click to expand...

sunybay said:
I dont think Denman is a bridle horse,
yesterday he was jumping very well until the last 2 fences, McCoy was really poor in the fall.

This is not the ideal preparation for the Gold Cup, but still has a good chance in the big race.
Click to expand...


I look forward to hearing what AP actually did wrong ?

The idea he was to blame for the unseating and should have stayed on strikes me as laughable - a great many jockeys and Sam Thomas I would count among them would have come off at the 4th last .

I agree that it is nonsense that AP is not above criticism - for example I thought he gave Sunnyhillboy a shocking ride in last year's county Hurdle .
 
Paul Nicholls on ATR this morning describes no problems with Denman. Maybe yesterday was an off day? Cantoris: I thought TT would win and he did. No money on any horse in the race but I always leave Denman and KS's races alone.
 
When the Ticky Trickster was coming in, a middle aged lady roared at the top of her voice "bring back Sam Thomas". Shame the owners of Tricky couln't enjoy their moment!
 
Turtle's fan said:
Cantoris: I thought TT would win and he did.
Click to expand...

Do you fancy him for the National?

I think he could go ok in the Gold Cup. He stays very well, likes the track, the extra few furlongs will help. I could see him there turning in. I suppose he needs one of the front tw to fall in a hole to get second but still, I think he could run into a place easily enough.
 
Last edited:
Cantoris said:
Do you fancy him for the National?

I think he could go ok in the Gold Cup. He stays very well, likes the track, the extra few furlongs will help. I could see him there turning in. I suppose he needs one of the front tw to fall in a hole to get second but still, I think he could run into a place easily enough.
Click to expand...

Agreed - especially as Neptune Collonges is injured and Exotic dancer no longer wish us . I agree with Galileo though I expect Cooldine to definitely be in the frame - I was expecting 3rd before the Aon but possibly 2nd now .
 
Back
Top