The Road to the 2017 Champion Hurdle

What does this suggest to you, Aughex?

That the horse has not sufficiently recovered from injury (either his original one, the recent one, or a combination of both), or that the trainer doesn't like the horse, and is purposely refusing to run him, despite him being fit?
 
Some shite on here of late

Rich Ricci does like to have runners at Kempton

Given his artillery at the moment, Faugheen would be going there without a run, Vroum Vroum could run in either big race as they choose

Seeing as NC won pretty easily the last time out, he could take this in and avoid a Christmas run
 
Aughex said:
Sure Dan but I can also put it another way. Does anyone remember back in school when a teacher had couple of favs in the class and no matter how good you were you could never really impress or get close to her/him. Mullins has a bunch of pupils and Faugheen best interests will always come last. Btw, RR interview with Chapman couple of weeks ago. He said that Mullins all of a sudden during the summer of 2014 told him that F'll go novice chasing(after they agreed that he'll stay hurdling) so RR had a big fight with him and eventually Mullins changed his mind. I think this only aggravated the situation I describe above.
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I watched the whole interview with RR - now unless i drifted off RR never said that..
 
Grasshopper said:
What does this suggest to you, Aughex?

That the horse has not sufficiently recovered from injury (either his original one, the recent one, or a combination of both), or that the trainer doesn't like the horse, and is purposely refusing to run him, despite him being fit?
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I just don't trust Mullins, why can't the reporters get a direct view from his handler John Codd so that there's no suspicion?
 
Presumably because John Codd knows his arse would be in a sling, if he talked out of turn.

Be realistic. A work-rider is never going to offer an opinion that the trainer doesn't want the public to hear.
 
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Patrick Mullins, assistant to his father, said: "I Imagine we'll be aiming at Christmas with him (Faugheen)."We'll just wait until he's really sparkling again.
"It was unfortunate we missed that bit of time with his bruised foot, but he is back riding out."

We are not worried about Annie, March is the day that is important
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Yanworth back to 2m for his next start. Will either tackle International at HQ or the Christmas Hurdle at Kempton according to Alan King.


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Looking at the entries Yanworth would need to be taking care of these if he has Champion aspirations.
 
I believe I was hailing Yanworth as Alan Kings best horse before most on here so can I be the first to say he wouldn't win a top class Champion Hurdle if he set of now.

I can understand him having a go at The International as it doesn't look like being hotly contested.....In fact when I see the New One who is going chasing being quoted at 11/2 it tell you just about everything you need to know. No doubt Alan King Nicky Henderson and Frank Berry will have a chat about who goes where so Yanworth could get a gimme, if the send MTOY elsewhere or vice versa

No doubt his form at 2m4f is far more impressive than his wins over Le Prezien and Charbal but I agree it's a good decision if only a temporary one with a good prize at stake
 
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Glad to see they've changed their mind. Hopefully he gets a nice strong pace this time.
 
What's changed your mind about him Tanlic since you rated him so highly? (presumably after that run on trials day last season)
 
Tanlic said:
I believe I was hailing Yanworth as Alan Kings best horse before most on here so can I be the first to say he wouldn't win a top class Champion Hurdle if he set of now.
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Wow.. I can only say that there were many, many that immediately after the Neptune thought Yanworth would've beat the crap out of Yorkhill if Barry hadn't gone a mile extra on the outside. He would've been a comfortable Neptune winner and most of those make into great champion hurdle horses, thats why I remember arguing on here that he should stay the 2 mile route and see what he can achieve before going out in trip. As for winning it, I wouldn't be so sure with the way Faugheen missed last year, it might happen again who knows. There's no reason to go out in trip and make a stayer out of him instead of build up his turn of foot in some trials and go for the CH against whoever turns out. I'd avoid the Christmas Hurdle as it seems thats where F might turn out and try to take him slowly before going against the very top 2 milers.
 
Well wow I put him up way back in October or November in the comp as the winner of the Supreme such were the good reports on the horse.

Then I had a big bet on him in the Neptune trial in Jan posting "I've outline what I am backing at Cheltenham but my main bet is Yanworth looks a top bet today and I will be shocked if he is beaten"

I still fancied him for the neptune until Davy Russell put a damp squib in the works and tipped up Yorkhill saying he was an absolute machine and his best bet of the meeting......Yikes!!!

So I should be a fan but I read all that rubbish about him being unlucky. Granted he went the long way round which has it's advantages like better ground and a clear passage. which they wanted for the horse. Yorkhill was hampered at one point and was shuffled back on heels at one point so he never exactly had an easy passage.

What stood out for me was Yorkhill was laughing at him and everything else and was long odds on from a long way out and never looked like getting beat. He actually sprinted away from Yanworth before idling in front allowing Yanworth to finish closer than he should have.

I would rather be thinking Yorkhill winning his chosen race at Cheltenham than Yanworth even running in the Champion Hurdle. For me Yorkhill is different gravy to Yanworth at any trip
 
Fair enough. Now you mention it I do remember you trumpeting Yanworth that day and although the form could possibly be crabbed now I'm still inclined to believe it was a special performance.

Yes Yorkhill did beat him soundly in the Neptune but I am prepared to excuse Yanworth that run. In fact it may have been a very good one in the circumstances. It's not the wide ride he was given that I blame for defeat, it's more the fact that the King yard were woefully out of form that week. Yanworth was pretty much the only one of his that ran with any sort of credit.

I think it's harsh to write him off as slow at this stage of his career. If he struggles on his next outing off a decent pace then I'll hold my hands up.
 
I'd rather take the view that the 15-20 lengths he covered going 4-5 wide would be enough to reduce the 1 length beating. How can that no be the main cause of defeat ? Yes the yard was in horrible form no doubt but with a slightly better ride he would've been too much for Yorkhill. Its a shame he missed Aintree to put the record straight and spare this discussion.

They seem keen to take Faugheen on in the Christmas Hurdle, F is now odds against but missing the *with a run market so its not really worth it given Mullins will decide just the day before if he goes or not. It seems to me that they want to know if they stand any chances of beating F and if not they'll go back up in trip. From a spectacle pov I'd prefer to go against easier opposition before the CH rather than all out now or never. From a betting pov I'm glad they're doing it :-)
 
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Aughex said:
I'd rather take the view that the 15-20 lengths he covered going 4-5 wide would be enough to reduce the 1 length beating.
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How wide is a horse?

If it's, say, a yard then going five wide would equate to about 31 yards - more like 10 to 11 lengths.

And that's assuming the other horse was scraping paint the whole way.

Then again, maybe the ground was better out wide? Geraghty is one of many fond of going wide when the ground is soft there.
 
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TheBear said:
Fair enough. Now you mention it I do remember you trumpeting Yanworth that day and although the form could possibly be crabbed now I'm still inclined to believe it was a special performance.

Yes Yorkhill did beat him soundly in the Neptune but I am prepared to excuse Yanworth that run. In fact it may have been a very good one in the circumstances. It's not the wide ride he was given that I blame for defeat, it's more the fact that the King yard were woefully out of form that week. Yanworth was pretty much the only one of his that ran with any sort of credit.

I think it's harsh to write him off as slow at this stage of his career. If he struggles on his next outing off a decent pace then I'll hold my hands up.
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If it worked the way some are saying then everyone would want to scrape paint all the way round. There's obviously an advantage if you get an absolutely clear run all the way but that happens once in a gawd knows how many times out of a hundred at Cheltenham?.

The disadvantages are obvious. The guy in front of you doesn't want to go as fast as you, so you sit and suffer or you pull out and pass him......that's if you can.......The likes of Yorkhill puling Ruby's arms out and him continuously reigning him back uses up a lot of energy........but he obviously expected that and that's why he decided tp go round the inner to try and cover him up.

Yanworth on the other hand is a very relaxed individual who hardly pulls at all but travels really well. When Barry rode him in the Neptune Trial he kept him away from the others at the back and then on the wide outside for most of the race where the horse could travel uninhibited. He did switch to the centre on the home turn as it was traffic free and won in a common canter. No one batted an eyelid about him going round the outside that day.

But we get people criticising Barry as is their want for using the same tactics on the same horse, because on the day, he either met a better horse, wasn't quite right as you suggested or some people think Barry Geraghty should have ridden the horse in among others and upset his best asset (High cruising speed)

tbh I didn't realise Kings horses were out of form at the time and Yanworth and yes it could explain his defeat but he's pulled a mile clear of the 3rd so the performance itself was a decent one.

However he took a lot of time to pass the 3rd and get into top gear and while Yorkhill has idled Yanworth looked as he appreciated every yard of the trip which is not ideal when up against a speedster like faugheen.
 
Aughex said:
Wow.. I can only say that there were many, many that immediately after the Neptune thought Yanworth would've beat the crap out of Yorkhill if Barry hadn't gone a mile extra on the outside. He would've been a comfortable Neptune winner and most of those make into great champion hurdle horses, thats why I remember arguing on here that he should stay the 2 mile route and see what he can achieve before going out in trip. As for winning it, I wouldn't be so sure with the way Faugheen missed last year, it might happen again who knows. There's no reason to go out in trip and make a stayer out of him instead of build up his turn of foot in some trials and go for the CH against whoever turns out. I'd avoid the Christmas Hurdle as it seems thats where F might turn out and try to take him slowly before going against the very top 2 milers.
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Most of them most certainly don't become Champion Hurdlers....I've heard so many people say that but it is a falacy...There's been only 3 went on to win the Champion Hurdle in 45 years. Faugheen, Hardy Eustace and Istabraq

Rock on Ruby, Binocular, Jezki, Sublimity, Brave Inca Bula and Hors La Loi III all came out of the Supreme others like Browns Gazette and Golden Cygnet most certainly would have won the Champion Hurdle if they were not killed.
 
Desert Orchid said:
How wide is a horse?

If it's, say, a yard then going five wide would equate to about 31 yards - more like 10 to 11 lengths.

And that's assuming the other horse was scraping paint the whole way.

Then again, maybe the ground was better out wide? Geraghty is one of many fond of going wide when the ground is soft there.
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Lets say only 5 lengths, he got beat in the end by 1 length. He would've won comfortably had he not taken the wider route. That is post race comment, Barry might have thought anything during it but that doesn't mean we can't say that his decision was wrong.


Tanlic said:
Most of them most certainly don't become Champion Hurdlers....I've heard so many people say that but it is a falacy...There's been only 3 went on to win the Champion Hurdle in 45 years. Faugheen, Hardy Eustace and Istabraq

Rock on Ruby, Binocular, Jezki, Sublimity, Brave Inca Bula and Hors La Loi III all came out of the Supreme others like Browns Gazette and Golden Cygnet most certainly would have won the Champion Hurdle if they were not killed.
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Of course non-winners of the Supreme like Jezki, Sublimity, Comedy of Errors, Morley Street, Granville Again were more likely to give the CH a go rather than non-winners of the Neptune. What you need to understand is that thanks to Istabraq, trainers realized that Neptune winners/placers were just as likely to win the CH and more started to attempt it. What resulted was that in the last 15 years there were more CH wins(Hardy Eustace 2004/5, ROR 2012, Faugheen 2015) from the Neptune horses that there were in the last 70 years of the Supreme horses(Brave Inca Bula Hors La Loi). Thats without counting the near misses like Peddlers Cross, beaten only a length and The New One the unlucky `14. Without Istabraq we may not have had these attempts from the Neptune horses that totally crushed the Supreme horses apart since they've been at it. Its not even close. The stamina factor from those that can win a Neptune, is more than what a regular Supreme horse can handle at the business end of a Champion Hurdle.
 
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