The Road to the 2017 Champion Hurdle

Does anyone have Timeform race ratings for Sceau Royal?

(And by the way where did Chamberlin get the pronunciation "Sko" from??? Even Chapman pronounced it right.)

I ask because of something Alan King said in his Weekender column today:

I was slightly disappointed with how [Sceau Royal] ran in the Kingwell, but he travelled really well for a long way and in hindsight it was actually a career-best effort.
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I'm struggling to believe that. They appeared to go a decent enough pace with Rayvin Black taking them so far then Melodic Rendezvous taking over the baton but I can't have the latter suddenly showing massively improved form. I have him on a career best of 152 (three times) and he was eased four lengths after the last. Taking that into account, I'd have Sceau Royal on 165, Ch'tibello 166 and Yanworth 171+ for Saturday based on that literal line but I'm struggling to accept it.

No doubt fans of Yanworth and Ch'tibello will be pleased to read that - it would make Yanworth the most likely winner of the Champion Hurdle with Ch'tibello next best - but it sits uneasy with me, especially with the news that they felt Ch'tibello didn't finish his race. I haven't analysed the time yet but the handicapper has put Ch'tibello up to 157, which would put Yanworth on 162, which looks about right. It would make Sceau Royal 156.

My ratings for Sceau Royal this season are:

Cheltenham: 160++
Wincanton: 166+p
Newcastle: 147++
Wincanton: 152+

Hopefully people can see why I was so keen on him earlier in the season.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
Does anyone have Timeform race ratings for Sceau Royal?

(And by the way where did Chamberlin get the pronunciation "Sko" from??? Even Chapman pronounced it right.)

I ask because of something Alan King said in his Weekender column today:



I'm struggling to believe that. They appeared to go a decent enough pace with Rayvin Black taking them so far then Melodic Rendezvous taking over the baton but I can't have the latter suddenly showing massively improved form. I have him on a career best of 152 (three times) and he was eased four lengths after the last. Taking that into account, I'd have Sceau Royal on 165, Ch'tibello 166 and Yanworth 171+ for Saturday based on that literal line but I'm struggling to accept it.

No doubt fans of Yanworth and Ch'tibello will be pleased to read that - it would make Yanworth the most likely winner of the Champion Hurdle with Ch'tibello next best - but it sits uneasy with me, especially with the news that they felt Ch'tibello didn't finish his race. I haven't analysed the time yet but the handicapper has put Ch'tibello up to 157, which would put Yanworth on 162, which looks about right. It would make Sceau Royal 156.

My ratings for Sceau Royal this season are:

Cheltenham: 160++
Wincanton: 166+p
Newcastle: 147++
Wincanton: 152+

Hopefully people can see why I was so keen on him earlier in the season.
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You were keen on him because you fail to realise the difference between proper Champion Hurdle opposition and cart horses by comparison.

When you do that you end up miles outside the realms of reality. Rayvin Black God love him is as moderate a horse as you will ever find running in a CH trial.

Using horses like him to get to a mark is nuts DO and you will never find winners doing so.

Your horse beat him 9 lengths so you give him 166+p Brain Power beats him 40 lengths, Zandyman beats him 34 lengths? That alone should have told you.....wait a minute something isn't right here and admit to yourself you f+cked up
 
Another really good frank of Buveur D'Air/Petit Mouchouir form there from Aintree with Limini skating in nicely at Punchestown.


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Only way Vroum Vroum Mag doesn't go Champion Hurdle now is if they send Limini herself. That was pretty impressive first time out.
 
Said it here weeks ago that they'd end up supplementing Limini for the champion & keep VVM for mares. No way VVM has speed for champion hurdle.

Limini 8/1 from 14s after that.


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12 NRNB Skybet

Still not for me though. 2m4f heavy ground against mares (third not beaten that far) very different from even a weak champion hurdle.
 
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Tanlic said:
You were keen on him because you fail to realise the difference between proper Champion Hurdle opposition and cart horses by comparison.

When you do that you end up miles outside the realms of reality. Rayvin Black God love him is as moderate a horse as you will ever find running in a CH trial.

Using horses like him to get to a mark is nuts DO and you will never find winners doing so.

Your horse beat him 9 lengths so you give him 166+p Brain Power beats him 40 lengths, Zandyman beats him 34 lengths? That alone should have told you.....wait a minute something isn't right here and admit to yourself you f+cked up
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Thanks for the constructive criticism.

Bye.
 
wilsonl said:
12 NRNB Skybet

Still not for me though. 2m4f heavy ground against mares (third not beaten that far) very different from even a weak champion hurdle.
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I wonder if we will think it was a weak Champion Hurdle next year. Yanworth 7 wins from 8, Buveur D'air 5 wins 6, Vroum Vroum Mag 12 wins from 13, races Moon Racer 4 wins from 5, The improving Petite Mouchoir and Brain Power possible shock from the likes of the promising Footpad.............I don't think it's the worst CH by any stretch of the imagination

The likes of Yanworth winning here then Aintree suddenly he's 9 from 10 rated 170+++ and the praise would be showered upon him.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Does anyone have Timeform race ratings for Sceau Royal?
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SCEAU ROYAL Master Rating(s): 151 (Last 4, 151+, 151+, 141+, 148)

YANWORTH Master Rating(s): 167 (Last 4, 154+, 157+, 158+, 156+)

Simply put, the future is all in front of Yanworth, Cheltenham will be his making or fall.
 
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Tanlic said:
I wonder if we will think it was a weak Champion Hurdle next year. Yanworth 7 wins from 8, Buveur D'air 5 wins 6, Vroum Vroum Mag 12 wins from 13, races Moon Racer 4 wins from 5, The improving Petite Mouchoir and Brain Power possible shock from the likes of the promising Footpad.............I don't think it's the worst CH by any stretch of the imagination

The likes of Yanworth winning here then Aintree suddenly he's 9 from 10 rated 170+++ and the praise would be showered upon him.
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None of the above were champion novices, and none of them can hold a candle to the best of Faugheen's form.....or possibly even Annie Power's for that matter.

It's nothing special, but not unusually weak either. What it is, is ultra-competitive.
 
I still believe it'll be Limini for the Mares, Yorkhill CH and VVM for the stayers. Ricci will just have to suck it up this year with regards to the Champion Hurdle. His best two are injured and his next two aren't good enough to win it so should be aimed at more realistic races.

They could also chuck UDS this way which would be a shock but not the worst idea.
 
Grasshopper said:
None of the above were champion novices, and none of them can hold a candle to the best of Faugheen's form.....or possibly even Annie Power's for that matter.

It's nothing special, but not unusually weak either. What it is, is ultra-competitive.
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1/5 (15L Arctic Fire 11-10) 30/100F


1/5 (7L The New One 11-7) 1/4F


2/5 (½L Nichols Canyon 11-10) 1/6F


1/4 (8L Arctic Fire 11-12) 1/6F


1/8 (1½L Arctic Fire 11-10) 4/5F


1/6 (8L Purple Bay 11-7) 4/11F


1/7 (3¾L Blue Fashion 11-0) 1/4F


1/8 (12L Valseur Lido 11-12) 1/2F


1/15 (4½L Ballyalton 11-7) 6/4F


1/7 (5L The Job Is Right 11-6) 8/13F


1/8 (4¼L Empire Of Dirt 11-12) 1/9F


1/10 (6½L Chute Hall 11-12) 1/5F


1/22 (22L Josses Hill 11-11) 11/8F


1/9 (8L Ballingarrow 11-2) 2/1

Doesn't exactly read like a who's who of top class hurdlers does it?

I was very disappointed when Arctic Fire got so close to him in the Champion Hurdle and to be honest the bubble of superdupersuperstar burst for a lot of people that day.

Persian War had Major Rose, Bula had Persian War Monksfield had Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon Comedy of Errors had lanzarote..........Faugheen has sweet fanny adams to beat IMO and Annie even less.

Smashing horse but weak opposition perhaps flattered him somewhat
 
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The bubble was re-inflated when Faugheen ran away from AF and NC, without coming off the bridle in the 2015 ICH. You obviously missed it. :)
 
Annie Power was overrated for sure, not Faugheen. Arctic Fire was ridden to place in the Champion that year and was grossly flattered.
 
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