The Stayer's Hurdle

It was good to see the son who crashed off his snowboard managing to walk with the aid of two sticks, too. Out of the wheelie and presumably life's returning to the nether regions, which is good. I don't know if he's likely to continue to improve, but it's got to be great to be upright again, even if a bit wobbly.

One of my colleagues sees the Stewarts (Judy and Andy) quite a lot at NH courses and he is unfailingly charming, polite, and interested. He sponsors a Cenkos (Financial Services) day at Plumpton and Paul Roy, head of the BHA, is its chairman (in case you didn't know!).
 
Mordin is very down on Big Bucks in the Irish Field today.

" never been able to give him a Grade 1 rating in any of his races"

" the staying hurdle division is the weakest in racing"

" a Grade 2 horses over fences and i don't believe he is any better now"

" When a proper Grade 1 horse takes him on, I'm sure he will be beaten"
 
chroniclandlord said:
Mordin is very down on Big Bucks in the Irish Field today.

(1)" never been able to give him a Grade 1 rating in any of his races"

(2)" the staying hurdle division is the weakest in racing"

(3)" a Grade 2 horses over fences and i don't believe he is any better now"

(4)" When a proper Grade 1 horse takes him on, I'm sure he will be beaten"
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(1) "because I don't actually understand how to rate form"

(2) "because I say so and despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary"

(3) "because everyone knows he was fully exposed over fences at the age of five"

(4) "allowing me to hedge my bets as long as he loses once in the next four seasons"
 
rorydelargy said:
(1) "because I don't actually understand how to rate form"
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But he's not rating it on the form; he's rating it on the time.

Assuming that a Grade 1 time is equivalent to at least a rating of 160 (which is probably generous), the Racing Post have never given Big Bucks a Grade 1 time rating either.
 
Galileo said:
Interesting to see Quevega entered up over 3 miles at Punchetown - is Big Bucks due to come over?
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I don't think connections have ruled it out but the last I read seemed to suggest it would be Aintree and that would be it for the season.

Punchestown would only be his fifth race of the season, though, so who knows?
 
I'll check through my own figures for Big Buck's and see what time ratings I've given him. Off the top of my head, I'll be surprised if he hasn't hit one or two very big ones.

Big Buck's is a good a staying hurdler as I can ever remember rating.

I'd also say the standard set by BB & Punchestowns has been consistently better than the other divisions since Rooster Booster peaked.
 
My time rating for BB at Cheltenham was 159 but remember he lobbed the whole way there. It's hard to say how much faster he could have gone.

However, he put up a very big time rating in the Stayers' Hurdle in 2009 when Punchestowns pressed him all the way. He got a Topspeed rating of 119 that day, two ahead of the class par of 117, which would confirm that it was a fast race.

His other time ratings aren't great but they haven't needed to be.

If Mordin can't get him a big time rating he has to look at his own figures.
 
I'm deeply impressed with Big Bucks. I didn't think to see a staying hurdler as good as Baracouda (who I was more impressed with than any since Night Nurse) for a good long while... Big Bucks may well be as good.
 
My own :rolleyes:

Seriously, though, your query arises every couple of years. My time ratings are based on the old Raceform Standard Times. I tried changing along with the introduction of the new ones but found myself going round in circles trying to get sensible readings. The old ones aren't perfect by any means but they strike me as having far fewer imperfections than the new ones.
 
Desert Orchid said:
My time rating for BB at Cheltenham was 159 but remember he lobbed the whole way there. It's hard to say how much faster he could have gone.

However, he put up a very big time rating in the Stayers' Hurdle in 2009 when Punchestowns pressed him all the way. He got a Topspeed rating of 119 that day, two ahead of the class par of 117, which would confirm that it was a fast race.

His other time ratings aren't great but they haven't needed to be.

If Mordin can't get him a big time rating he has to look at his own figures.
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His 2009 Stayer's Hurdle Topspeed was 131, a full 45lbs short of his RPR. What time rating did you award him on for that race?
 
Gareth Flynn said:
His 2009 Stayer's Hurdle Topspeed was 131, a full 45lbs short of his RPR. What time rating did you award him on for that race?
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Form book 'Speed ratings' (which I'd presumed were compiled by Topspeed): (Par 117) Big Buck's 119, Punchestowns 118.

My time rating was 178 and it was 41lbs faster than Kayf Aramis in the Pertemps over c&d. Those are the only two hurdles races on the day so it is hard to be categorical about them but I'd say that about almost all jumps time ratings.
 
That explains it - the form book speed ratings are separate to Topspeed. IIRC they're a fairly simplistic version of Mordin's class par method.
 
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