Very Very Ordinary
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Bloody superb, so much better than I managed in response to his inane rubbish. Thank you.
Bloody superb, so much better than I managed in response to his inane rubbish. Thank you.
Soary Stars
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Well, some use of intelligence would be a shock to some people's systems, so this Mills & Boone stuff can just pass along.
Watching the news programmes, I am increasingly disturbed at how commentators of all shades of opinion are utterly confident that they know what they are talking about when all the evidence of the last few days is that nobody does.
Soary, I'm sorry, but I honestly don't know what you mean. Romantic novels? I don't see where they fit in with killing three young lads, two of whom were brothers.
I imagine we'll have endless talking heads hauled out for 'special' tv shows, now, God help us, to tell us how this has all got to do with unemployment, class, politics, greed, lousy parenting, fatherless children, the Welfare society, useless schooling, too many immigrants, awful Council housing, no playgrounds, no work apprenticeships, no National Service, no morality, no religious teaching, no community spirit, and so on. Have I missed something out? Ken Livingstone's been given a huge amount of airtime as if he's still Mayor of London, and has been trying to make old-time political hay out of events (yawn), but we haven't even started on the "panel of experts" who will fight like cats and dogs with opposing arguments. Cue Jasmin Alibai-Brown, the large lady from the kids' charity whose name I can't possibly spell, but always wears a semi-turban, assorted child psychologists, experts on mob psychology, various reps from Councils, schools, the police... Christ, I think I might go on a silent retreat for a month if this is what we have to look forward to!
So far, I'm impressed by the lads in Manchester who turned out to voluntarily help shopkeepers clean up, and the great dignity of the friends and families of the three murdered boys. I don't really like to say 'Asians' because they probably hold British citizenship and run local businesses - in fact, the young guys look to have been born in the UK anyway.
I imagine we'll have endless talking heads hauled out for 'special' tv shows, now, God help us, to tell us how this has all got to do with unemployment, class, politics, greed, lousy parenting, fatherless children, the Welfare society, useless schooling, too many immigrants, awful Council housing, no playgrounds, no work apprenticeships, no National Service, no morality, no religious teaching, no community spirit, and so on. Have I missed something out? Ken Livingstone's been given a huge amount of airtime as if he's still Mayor of London, and has been trying to make old-time political hay out of events (yawn), but we haven't even started on the "panel of experts" who will fight like cats and dogs with opposing arguments. Cue Jasmin Alibai-Brown, the large lady from the kids' charity whose name I can't possibly spell, but always wears a semi-turban, assorted child psychologists, experts on mob psychology, various reps from Councils, schools, the police... Christ, I think I might go on a silent retreat for a month if this is what we have to look forward to!
So far, I'm impressed by the lads in Manchester who turned out to voluntarily help shopkeepers clean up, and the great dignity of the friends and families of the three murdered boys. I don't really like to say 'Asians' because they probably hold British citizenship and run local businesses - in fact, the young guys look to have been born in the UK anyway.
trackside528
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If there's one thing we should take from this whole thing, surely it's the appeal for calm and conciliation from the father of one of the lads killed in Birmingham the other night. It's all very well to sit here and type it, but to go in front of a raft of cameras the day after your son has been brutally murdered takes real courage.
Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ1VjUSKevc&feature=related
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granger
Senior Jockey
The reason this is defeat for left wing thinking (of a certain kind) is perfectly illustrated by their spiritual home,,... the Guardian comment page
Quite a few pieces (with one excellent exception)are little more apologias for the looters. Havent read them all, but strikingly a couple which purport to cover the whole issue completely refuse to make any reference to the victims
I think that says it all
It is hard to think of a thread of opinion that could be so far out of step with that of the wider public
All that is completely irrelevant when set alongside that truly moving and brave speech by that fine man in Birmingham.
Quite a few pieces (with one excellent exception)are little more apologias for the looters. Havent read them all, but strikingly a couple which purport to cover the whole issue completely refuse to make any reference to the victims
I think that says it all
It is hard to think of a thread of opinion that could be so far out of step with that of the wider public
All that is completely irrelevant when set alongside that truly moving and brave speech by that fine man in Birmingham.
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A 46 y.o. man has been arrested, plus any amount of people in middle-class jobs, and a bloke who drove especially from Winchester with his car full of B&E gear to take full advantage of the rioting.
Class oppression - nil points.
The starving - nil points (food shops weren't looted for food, only fags and booze).
The desperate unemployed - half aren't old enough to yet be legally employed (including the 11 y.o. girl child on criminal damage charges - hallo, Mummy, Daddy?), and many of the others were in gainful work. So, nil points with that excuse.
I think we can get through most of the other pathetic excuses for these outbursts of criminal behaviour with nil points for all other than greed and a feeling of invincibility, borne out of the misguided political correctness of the past decade, where nobody can even touch another person's elbow without it being 'assault'.
Class oppression - nil points.
The starving - nil points (food shops weren't looted for food, only fags and booze).
The desperate unemployed - half aren't old enough to yet be legally employed (including the 11 y.o. girl child on criminal damage charges - hallo, Mummy, Daddy?), and many of the others were in gainful work. So, nil points with that excuse.
I think we can get through most of the other pathetic excuses for these outbursts of criminal behaviour with nil points for all other than greed and a feeling of invincibility, borne out of the misguided political correctness of the past decade, where nobody can even touch another person's elbow without it being 'assault'.
The Brixton riots were in 1981, 30 years ago and what has been learned? next to nothing, the politicans talked then about a number of schemes to improve living conditions and improving the community spirit and communication with the police etc...talk is cheap.
It is no surprise that in the first two days of the troubles areas like Tottenham, Hackney, Peckham, Clapham etc were the stage, areas that are ruled by gangs, and thats the biggest failure since Brixton, that all these no-go estates and patches have been allowed to fester with only the occasional visit by police when things got too spicy, in fact members of these gangs are now 3rd & 4th generation members.
Drive by shootings are seen as an occupational hazard and a feather in the cap of the perp, if you are a young kid growing up on the Pembury Estate in Hackney which was the scene of most of the trouble on Monday night, you have an uphill battle from day one, go a 1/4 of a mile up the road and there is the London Fields gang, 1/4 mile in the other direction and you are on the patch of the Gilpin Money Gang (true name), Monday night was nothing more than a chance for this lot to make a few quid - the bigger issue is how do the police unpick the gang problems and give these areas back to honest working class people.
It is no surprise that in the first two days of the troubles areas like Tottenham, Hackney, Peckham, Clapham etc were the stage, areas that are ruled by gangs, and thats the biggest failure since Brixton, that all these no-go estates and patches have been allowed to fester with only the occasional visit by police when things got too spicy, in fact members of these gangs are now 3rd & 4th generation members.
Drive by shootings are seen as an occupational hazard and a feather in the cap of the perp, if you are a young kid growing up on the Pembury Estate in Hackney which was the scene of most of the trouble on Monday night, you have an uphill battle from day one, go a 1/4 of a mile up the road and there is the London Fields gang, 1/4 mile in the other direction and you are on the patch of the Gilpin Money Gang (true name), Monday night was nothing more than a chance for this lot to make a few quid - the bigger issue is how do the police unpick the gang problems and give these areas back to honest working class people.
Okay, that might explain some of the London action, but it doesn't explain the middle-class employees who joined in, nor does it explain Bristol, Manchester and Liverpool's nonsense. And as for Wolverhampton, that's hugely Indian/Pakistani, running local businesses, not ex-West Indian families who were all born in the UK - in fact, whose own parents were born in the UK.
The police can't just go into estates these days without just cause to do so - their hands are tied by a daft bureaucracy which has believed that a 'hands off' policy made for better relationships, and that their presence only helped to stir up more trouble than it stopped. Maybe the gangs now have, as it were, shot themselves in their own feet, and the police will be given free rein to break up the crap that's ruled the estates and been the cause of dozens of young deaths over several years.
The police are damned if they do, damned if they don't. They're accused of racially harassing anyone who isn't Persil white in colour (a very convenient slur), or picking on religious minorities (another one) whenever they might have reasons to suspect someone or a group of misdemeanours or much worse. If they go in, they're trashed by right-on politicians and community 'leaders', if they don't, they're reviled in the Press as too wimpy.
We need to give power back to the police to do what they should do and the hell with whether people are white, black, mixed, of any religion or none. If they have a reason to pull someone over, then pull them over. The reason why black boys complain they're pulled over the most is because it's mainly black boys doing the evil. Stop doing the wrong thing, start doing the right, and you'll find you'll be getting Duke of Edinburgh Awards instead of pokey.
But none of it comes to aught if the parents - or, most likely, given so many black fathers' disdain for being in their offspring's lives - parent - won't give their children due care, and fight back against the gangs by forming some serious pressure groups.
How can it possibly be right that a bunch of snotty-nosed little hooligans can take over the lives of other kids and rule their estates with guns and knives? It's absolutely barking mad. What has amazed me, but in a good way, is that guns weren't drawn and stabbings didn't occur during these nights of foolishness.
I'd also add that it's time estates were broken up. They were built in response to the foul slums which existed prior to WWII, which were done a favour by the Luftwaffe in being mostly razed. What went up were faceless monster blocks which engender no sense of neighbourliness, since they are simply overwhelming monoliths, bland and ugly. I don't think the flats should've gone over four storeys high, and all should've contained flat roofs for communal sitting out, good garden spaces all around, trees, and within the buildings, shops and cafes as well as recreational halls, which could've been run by the individual block's own residents for pay. Councils could've mandated that all the blocks contained well-known chains like KFC, Starbucks, etc., and that residents and their kids would be given first option for being trained to work in them. They might not all have the chance to grow their own veggies - although I'd have incorporated allotment land as well, thus spacing the blocks out and giving breathing space - but they could all run their own mini-communities and foster a better sense of supporting each other, and a bit of civic pride.
The police can't just go into estates these days without just cause to do so - their hands are tied by a daft bureaucracy which has believed that a 'hands off' policy made for better relationships, and that their presence only helped to stir up more trouble than it stopped. Maybe the gangs now have, as it were, shot themselves in their own feet, and the police will be given free rein to break up the crap that's ruled the estates and been the cause of dozens of young deaths over several years.
The police are damned if they do, damned if they don't. They're accused of racially harassing anyone who isn't Persil white in colour (a very convenient slur), or picking on religious minorities (another one) whenever they might have reasons to suspect someone or a group of misdemeanours or much worse. If they go in, they're trashed by right-on politicians and community 'leaders', if they don't, they're reviled in the Press as too wimpy.
We need to give power back to the police to do what they should do and the hell with whether people are white, black, mixed, of any religion or none. If they have a reason to pull someone over, then pull them over. The reason why black boys complain they're pulled over the most is because it's mainly black boys doing the evil. Stop doing the wrong thing, start doing the right, and you'll find you'll be getting Duke of Edinburgh Awards instead of pokey.
But none of it comes to aught if the parents - or, most likely, given so many black fathers' disdain for being in their offspring's lives - parent - won't give their children due care, and fight back against the gangs by forming some serious pressure groups.
How can it possibly be right that a bunch of snotty-nosed little hooligans can take over the lives of other kids and rule their estates with guns and knives? It's absolutely barking mad. What has amazed me, but in a good way, is that guns weren't drawn and stabbings didn't occur during these nights of foolishness.
I'd also add that it's time estates were broken up. They were built in response to the foul slums which existed prior to WWII, which were done a favour by the Luftwaffe in being mostly razed. What went up were faceless monster blocks which engender no sense of neighbourliness, since they are simply overwhelming monoliths, bland and ugly. I don't think the flats should've gone over four storeys high, and all should've contained flat roofs for communal sitting out, good garden spaces all around, trees, and within the buildings, shops and cafes as well as recreational halls, which could've been run by the individual block's own residents for pay. Councils could've mandated that all the blocks contained well-known chains like KFC, Starbucks, etc., and that residents and their kids would be given first option for being trained to work in them. They might not all have the chance to grow their own veggies - although I'd have incorporated allotment land as well, thus spacing the blocks out and giving breathing space - but they could all run their own mini-communities and foster a better sense of supporting each other, and a bit of civic pride.
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I grew up through my teen years during the 80's in a 9th floor flat in Hackney Wick, I use to look out of the window and try to spot any green, the only patch was the small triangle below the flats we use kick a ball around (aww shucks), it was then the poorest borough in London and the most over crowded in the UK, during that decade there was a need (EU requirement) to house 50,000 eastern europeans - where did they house them? Kensington & Chelsea by any chance? No Hackney! Did they get extra funding, yes but only to build more houses!
And gangs are not restricted to London, all the cities mentioned in the looting have them, I live closer to Anfield now than the Emirates and walking through those estates in Liverpool (you have to pay the local hoods to keep your car safe) is an eye opener.
As for the middle class twits involved that is the media highlighting them to make a point that its not all lower class hooligans but sadly it takes the spotlight off the main issue, I would guess percentages of lower class looters compared to middle class looters is much much higher - even the anarchist groups have millionaire's children rebelling, why? Maybe too rich and too bored, parents too strict, ego's to big or how about just rank bad parenting in that class too.
I am going to sound like anarchist myself but I am not, but this to me is the yin & yang of many problems, both steal but in succinctly different ways.
I read an article today written by Grant Thornton accountants who audit tax returns, this is based on 2005 returns and copied below....
According to data from Grant Thornton the reporting on the billionaires living in the UK:
Paid income tax totalling just £14.7m on their £126 billion combined fortunes, and only a handful paid any capital gains tax. At least 32 of the individual billionaires or family groupings are calculated not to have paid any personal taxes on their fortunes, although they are liable for VAT and council tax.
They went on to say:
The analysis concluded that, in total, the 54 billionaires paid an estimated tax bill totalling £74.5m. James Dyson, the inventor worth £1,050m, contributed the bulk of the income tax paid by the billionaires £9m of the £14.7m paid by all 54.
And gangs are not restricted to London, all the cities mentioned in the looting have them, I live closer to Anfield now than the Emirates and walking through those estates in Liverpool (you have to pay the local hoods to keep your car safe) is an eye opener.
As for the middle class twits involved that is the media highlighting them to make a point that its not all lower class hooligans but sadly it takes the spotlight off the main issue, I would guess percentages of lower class looters compared to middle class looters is much much higher - even the anarchist groups have millionaire's children rebelling, why? Maybe too rich and too bored, parents too strict, ego's to big or how about just rank bad parenting in that class too.
I am going to sound like anarchist myself but I am not, but this to me is the yin & yang of many problems, both steal but in succinctly different ways.
I read an article today written by Grant Thornton accountants who audit tax returns, this is based on 2005 returns and copied below....
According to data from Grant Thornton the reporting on the billionaires living in the UK:
Paid income tax totalling just £14.7m on their £126 billion combined fortunes, and only a handful paid any capital gains tax. At least 32 of the individual billionaires or family groupings are calculated not to have paid any personal taxes on their fortunes, although they are liable for VAT and council tax.
They went on to say:
The analysis concluded that, in total, the 54 billionaires paid an estimated tax bill totalling £74.5m. James Dyson, the inventor worth £1,050m, contributed the bulk of the income tax paid by the billionaires £9m of the £14.7m paid by all 54.
Soary Stars
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It's good to hear something else than the knee jerk stuff not only here but in the general media, too.
There's a f*cking big divide, a big hard heartedness around, too. That's not aimed at the rioters - they're a separate issue as far as judging them goes anyway.
There's a f*cking big divide, a big hard heartedness around, too. That's not aimed at the rioters - they're a separate issue as far as judging them goes anyway.
Sorry to say this, but there always was and always will be a big divide, fucking or not. Look at any country in the world under any sort of regime - keep it real, guys, keep it real. The worst excesses of the 'big divide' were under Communist despots who destroyed multi-millions of their own people - Stalin, 45m, Mao 85m?, Pol Pot 80m? and Kim Jong-Il in North Korea, who knows? So much for dividing the wealth among the people.
So let's not get too self-pitying here. There are lots of multi-millionaires, even billionaires, who started out with bugger all, from desperate housing conditions and all kinds of setbacks, such as being non-white, Jewish, homosexual, etc. Being poor doesn't mean being stupid. Neither does it mean deliberately setting out to harm your fellow man is fine and dandy.
Five people are now dead because a bunch of twazzocks decided to go looting. If any of them was your brother, uncle, or Dad, how soft-hearted are you going to feel today?
Let's get some perspective on this 'big divide'. You've always had the very rich, you've always had the very poor. What you haven't had until the 20th Century was a significant, home-owning, healthy and well-fed middle class, largely helped by inventors such as people like Dyson, who's provided jobs for hundreds in his factories and through the shops which stock his products. Let's be proud, for God's sake, of having some people who generate a decent middle-income wealth instead of forever envying them their wealth, while doing bugger-all to emulate it.
My parents and I lived in a tiny flat in North London (Colindale, for those geographically interested) until they had the gumption to go overseas in search of better living standards and better money, so that when they returned to the UK they would not still be living in a tiny flat. Sometimes, you have to move out of your old comfort zones and actually get off your arse in order to better your lives. If you don't, you can sit and stagnate in a pool of self-pity and pointless envy. But don't expect my pity if you do.
So let's not get too self-pitying here. There are lots of multi-millionaires, even billionaires, who started out with bugger all, from desperate housing conditions and all kinds of setbacks, such as being non-white, Jewish, homosexual, etc. Being poor doesn't mean being stupid. Neither does it mean deliberately setting out to harm your fellow man is fine and dandy.
Five people are now dead because a bunch of twazzocks decided to go looting. If any of them was your brother, uncle, or Dad, how soft-hearted are you going to feel today?
Let's get some perspective on this 'big divide'. You've always had the very rich, you've always had the very poor. What you haven't had until the 20th Century was a significant, home-owning, healthy and well-fed middle class, largely helped by inventors such as people like Dyson, who's provided jobs for hundreds in his factories and through the shops which stock his products. Let's be proud, for God's sake, of having some people who generate a decent middle-income wealth instead of forever envying them their wealth, while doing bugger-all to emulate it.
My parents and I lived in a tiny flat in North London (Colindale, for those geographically interested) until they had the gumption to go overseas in search of better living standards and better money, so that when they returned to the UK they would not still be living in a tiny flat. Sometimes, you have to move out of your old comfort zones and actually get off your arse in order to better your lives. If you don't, you can sit and stagnate in a pool of self-pity and pointless envy. But don't expect my pity if you do.
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Harbinger
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Even Dyson sent his manufacturing abroad in the end.
Anyway, Peter Oborne's piece in the Telegraph might be of interest:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/p...r-society-is-as-bad-at-the-top-as-the-bottom/
Anyway, Peter Oborne's piece in the Telegraph might be of interest:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/p...r-society-is-as-bad-at-the-top-as-the-bottom/
Decent piece that in the Telegraph.....
Krizon I think anyone with a brain knows there is divide and always will be, the post was nothing to do with self-pity nor envy of billionaires, there is no system that works perfectly but it does not mean that we should just ignore gangs running the streets at one end and tax dodgers at the other, and unless something is done about the former which has now been highlighted as a serious threat to this country then sadly it is not hard to see future repeats of the last few days.
Krizon I think anyone with a brain knows there is divide and always will be, the post was nothing to do with self-pity nor envy of billionaires, there is no system that works perfectly but it does not mean that we should just ignore gangs running the streets at one end and tax dodgers at the other, and unless something is done about the former which has now been highlighted as a serious threat to this country then sadly it is not hard to see future repeats of the last few days.
Soary Stars
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Good spot there.
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Jakers - there are a lot of people running around without brains, then! They clearly haven't understood that some things will always be a certain way - BUT that they can change their personal circumstances if they have the brains to do it. And tax dodgers - to my best knowledge - have not deliberately caused the deaths of five innocent people, and seriously injured several others, in just a few days. Tax dodging is something that will also always be around, just like selling moody goods, counterfeiting, prostitution, pornography, incest, drug addiction and alcoholism - none of it's good for society, but it's there and it'll likely always be. But it doesn't mean you have to be part of any of it. I don't buy this poverty excuse for one nanosecond. And I don't condone any criminal acts, whether they're by old Etonians or Council estate yobs. There is no class divide on trying to get away with what you can, as we've seen from the (punished) MPs who fiddled tax and expense returns, and the looters trying to do just the same with other people's property.
If Britain should be castigated, it should now be as a nation of people known for trying to get away with wrongdoing. We have a racing example in today's news (pathetic excuse No.78 out of 500: I didn't know it was wrong), we have examples in the papers every day of people causing deaths by dangerous driving, we have any amount of officials appointing pals to well-paid positions, and we have now heard evidence (re News International) that the police were taking money for tipping off phone-hacking journos. All of it comes down to: "I thought I could get away with it". Such ignoble ambitions.
If Britain should be castigated, it should now be as a nation of people known for trying to get away with wrongdoing. We have a racing example in today's news (pathetic excuse No.78 out of 500: I didn't know it was wrong), we have examples in the papers every day of people causing deaths by dangerous driving, we have any amount of officials appointing pals to well-paid positions, and we have now heard evidence (re News International) that the police were taking money for tipping off phone-hacking journos. All of it comes down to: "I thought I could get away with it". Such ignoble ambitions.
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trackside528
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I think any emphasis on class warfare or poverty runs the risk of taking the riots well out of context and attributing motives to the rioters that there seems to be little or no evidence of (some of the rhetoric I heard from the rioters along the 'fuck the police'/'we have no hope' lines smacked of opportunistic rubbish). Despite the unfortunate death of five people, to suggest that the motive of most of the rioters was to injure or kill is surely misleading; it was looting and wanton destruction by young kids that was at the heart of it as far as I've seen.
I think people would do well to guard against over-reaction either way on the evidence of the last week. It may well perpetuate the lazy, ignorant notion that all those on the dole are sitting at home living comfy, benefit-scrounging lives and the ridiculous stereotype of the 'chav' that 'proper people' all too often wheel out to denigrate those they perceive to be somehow beneath them. But I hope not.
I think people would do well to guard against over-reaction either way on the evidence of the last week. It may well perpetuate the lazy, ignorant notion that all those on the dole are sitting at home living comfy, benefit-scrounging lives and the ridiculous stereotype of the 'chav' that 'proper people' all too often wheel out to denigrate those they perceive to be somehow beneath them. But I hope not.
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Grasshopper
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Oborne's piece is a tour-de-force. A mainstream journo echoes my thoughts exactly for the very first time.
Blears histrionics (bereft of a trace of irony) yesterday was just as sickening as some of the violence of the last few days, as far as I'm concerned.
Good spot, Gareth. Should be compulsary reading.
Blears histrionics (bereft of a trace of irony) yesterday was just as sickening as some of the violence of the last few days, as far as I'm concerned.
Good spot, Gareth. Should be compulsary reading.
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trackside528
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On similar lines, Boris Johnson going on about some people's "sense of entitlement" earlier this week was bordering on the hysterical.
For all that Livingston's comments have reeked of (very poor) electioneering, Johnson looked out of his depth whenever I saw him this week. Not a man to have on your side when things get tough.
For all that Livingston's comments have reeked of (very poor) electioneering, Johnson looked out of his depth whenever I saw him this week. Not a man to have on your side when things get tough.
Desperate Dan
Senior Jockey
"Everybody deserves a second chance"......Yes,Prime Minister.
M
Marble
Guest
With respect, you can not tell people who are making judgements on these issues, who have not been part of the violence, who are decent citizens, what they can and cannot think though. Part of the problem here is some people don't think at all, and that can be linked to the fact they don't care. Does that remind you of what we've seen over the last week? As for this all being a bunch of kids, see Jakers informative posts about the gangs in London further up the page and tell me what you think then.
I've sensed this type of approach coming from segments of the media, too. Whilst it's perfectly clear youths of all races were part of this, I thought it was interesting at the time, that when the now infamous jamaican women from Hackney said something along the lines of. 'stop rioting, this started because of the death of a man in Tottenham, stop rioting black people", Kiss FM conviently edited the comment the woman made on her own ethnic group, but played just about everything else she said. These types of media people needn't lecture others about how it is not a racial issue, they are clearly the one's who think it is an issue based on their censorships.
Excellent piece from Peter Osbourne, agree entirely.
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Interesting to hear that the Councils of the cities that have had rioting have decided that of their tenants found guilty by the Courts will be evicted from Council properties - even if they do not hold the tenancy, their families will be evicted. Only heard a brief snippet as on the 'phone at the time.
Did anyone else hear this in full and can expand on it?
Various forumites advocate National Service, which would probably be of some help, to be honest. Not so much as a hard-line short, sharp shock, but to employ all that energy buzzing about, teach trades and also some self-discipline and respect.
It would probably also have the side-effect of cutting down the number of people migrating to Britain in search of an easier life!
Pity that the Courts can no longer give someone found guilty the option of going to prison or joining the army!
Did anyone else hear this in full and can expand on it?
Various forumites advocate National Service, which would probably be of some help, to be honest. Not so much as a hard-line short, sharp shock, but to employ all that energy buzzing about, teach trades and also some self-discipline and respect.
It would probably also have the side-effect of cutting down the number of people migrating to Britain in search of an easier life!
Pity that the Courts can no longer give someone found guilty the option of going to prison or joining the army!