Tottenham Riot

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krizon said:
The unworking poor? You're avinalarf! The 'unworking' poor can draw benefits as well as get housed without having to pay a mortgage or take any responsibility for the upkeep of their flats/houses.QUOTE]

I allus sed me mum brung me up rong!

If I had of got pregnant at 16 I wood hav a flat and not have to werk for it and if they tryed to send me to werk i cood just hav annuther baby.
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As someone who has spent the last 13 months ( and most likely, the next6 or 7 ) waiting to be made redundant after being tupe'd to IBM, I have long advocated that any UK based company who decides it will 'offshore' it's business for obvious tax gains, but who's business is still primarily concerned in and around the UK, should be taxed to oblivion by the government in order to stop it happening. Why should these companies be allowed to devastate local economies by making in some cases, thousands redundant in the UK, plus the knock on effect that has on local retailers etc, just for their own financial gain. A time has to come whereby a company who makes a decent profit has to stop trying to wring every last cent out of the company and it's workforce. If the company is a healthy, thriving concern employing a percentage of the local workforce, then surely there should be a moral obligation to keep the whole thing ticking over in that vane. Not to try and rip the social fabric apart for the sake of a bit more cash on the balance sheet. Especially when the 'off-shoring' is to places like INdia or South Africa which is not even keeping the work within the so called EU. As I say, I would tax them out of existence, and any attempts to circumvent this would bring about new tax laws to close down any loopholes they find. Enough is enough.
 
Marble said:
With respect, you can not tell people who are making judgements on these issues, who have not been part of the violence, who are decent citizens, what they can and cannot think though.
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I'm not telling anyone what they can and cannot think; just giving my own thoughts on the matter.

I take Jakers' points with regards to the prevalence of gangs etc but this did not strike me as the work of highly organised gangs, and I haven't read or heard much to suggest otherwise - happy to be proven wrong on that. That's not to say that gangs aren't a major issue in many of the affected areas, of course.
 
So why has Cameron hired US 'supecop' Bill Bratton to tackle street gangs then?

But you are right it is not all about gangs it was definite opportunism due to the lack of police resources over the first two nights, and most of the gang element involved were most likley at the bottom rung - those at the top would not have enjoyed the pubilicity, their crack dens are far more important than a 42" plasma.

Agree with DaveG's comments , the politicians need to grow a pair and stopped being blackmailed by these huge corporations.
 
Jakers said:
So why has Cameron hired US 'supecop' Bill Bratton to tackle street gangs then?
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I thought I read that that was in the works before the trouble broke out?

Listen, I'm not saying gangs aren't a problem (indeed, the opposite is clearly the case), but merely that I did not get the impression they were at the root of the trouble in the last week.
 
Odd that moving of jobs from uk to overseas is "outsourcing" and seemingly disloyal to the businesses heritage (or whatever). But when an overseas company creates jobs here its "investment"

Taxing as a form of punishment for a clear eyed business decision is hopelessly naive and suggestions made above not worth time of day,but a start would be some unformity of corporation tax rates across the EU. As for outsourcing, well its sliding back. I had an article in Accountancy magazine last year that slightly predicted some of this Can be downloaded off my blog

http://cpcmcredit.wordpress.com/

the cost savings are not as great as they were and the customer service is a disaster.

As for Philip Green and co, nothing but contempt. If he showed some sign of the philanthropy which is a real tradition amongst the superich in america, then fair enough, but he hasnt and it remains sheer greed.
 
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trackside528 said:
I thought I read that that was in the works before the trouble broke out?

Listen, I'm not saying gangs aren't a problem (indeed, the opposite is clearly the case), but merely that I did not get the impression they were at the root of the trouble in the last week.
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Gangs were very much at the root of the trouble were I live in Clapham Junction. My kids new through texts from friends at 5pm it was going to kick off at 8pm and the frightening thing was that the gangs who normally kill each other, called a truce, got together and it was organised via some messaging service on blackberrys. They were definitely the front line, whilst admittedly others took advantage.
 
Fair article, reasoned and sensible comments - but could I point out that we test people's 'mettle', not their 'metal', unless we're Euronymous. But that's a different tune. So if London needs a new mayor, the New Statesman needs a new copy reader.
 
Both my juniors are in London at the moment. They are students, but they also have part-time and casual jobs. After hearing some of the tales of sheer bullying from low level tyrants and the humbug lectures they dish out, it seems to me that there is a lack of respect towards junior employees that I never experienced when I was doing similar jobs. Employers can get away with it because jobs are hard to get, and wage rates in a lot of jobs are very low, but I have the impression there's a certain feeling out there towards the corporate world that what goes around comes around.
 
Clivex, without wanting to get into it again with you, your post seems to go against what I say, and then sort of agree with it when attacking Phillip Green? Anyway, the thing about 'off-shoring' is that companies bring in some director who promises them massive savings, and who's only plan, is to off-shore as they think it is easily achieved, and cheap. As you point out, reality is, it is far removed from this. Customer service is a disaster, conference calls are a joke, as quite frankly, no one can understand a word being said from out in Bangalore. Emails take a world of decyphering, and the people pushing the off-shoring just go around telling everyone it is going swimmingly. One of the things pisses me off most about this sort of thing, is the director gets his big pay off regardless of the outcome. Once it is completed, he gets his bonus golden handshake, even if it does resemble a house of cards on a windy day. The next incumbent then comes in, takes 12 months looking at the shambles they have been left with, does the math, and returns everything quite likely back in-house. I have seen it a few times now, from outside and now within. The people who have come up to us for 'knowledge transfer' don't do anything like the technical side of the job we do, and quite frankly, are shitting themselves to a man about being expected to perform our role when they have next to no idea. The director causing all the damage meantime, moves on to his next company, making the same useless promises. It's a vicious circle. Although my taxation plan may not be ideal, I'd like something along those lines to stop the whole farsicle process taking place in the first instance. The company I 'worked' for, is owned by people pretty much in the Phillip Green mold.....
 
And to think Phillip Green was hired to advise on Public spending cuts, not saying he is not qualified to do so just that.....

Blackberry are now working with the police and will pass on messages, one released so far (if you can understand the lingo) by Paul Lewis at the Guardian went:

"everyone in edmonton enfield woodgreen everywhere in north link up at enfield town station 4 o clock sharp!!!!" the message, which runs well over 140 characters, read in part. "Keep sending this around to bare man, make sure no snitch boys get dis!!! Whatever ends your from put your ballys on link up and cause havic, just rob everything. Police can't stop it. Dead the fires though!! Rebroadcast!!!!!"

Read this today good sensible insight:

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2011/08/simon-marcus-listen-to-the-children.html
 
Apologies Dave G. There is of course a big difference between outsourcing and offshoring funds and i do believe that should be a level f corporate responsibilty to the market that developed the business. As i witnessed in last group i worked for there is sometimes an obsession with "shareholder value" which neglects the less immediate value gained by having a loyal and committed workforce. Some of these businesses should look at john lewis (im definately not saying co-op is the way forward though) for an example of this. First Direct bank too perhaps

Its horrible working under the axe (as i know) so some sympathy for you (for once...)
 
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Yes, a good insight into a portion of society, but... I don't buy the bit about 'their poor mothers' losing control of their children, as if only males can contribute to producing decent citizens. That's chauvinistically patronising. I'm sure that fatherless families do suffer from good male role models, but in many, many cases, the fathers weren't. They were feckless bullies, drunks, drifters or drug dealers who just decamped when child-raising responsibility, which will be the buzz word now, proved beyond their limited abilities.

I know quite a lot of women whose rubbish husbands/sires of their children buggered off and left them to fend for themselves, but their kids were certainly brought up with a strong sense of right and wrong. In fact, one was my neighbour (sadly, now dead at 54 from recurring cancer), who'd had a violent husband who'd even broken the arm of their only son when he was barely two. She always made sure her lad came home for proper cooked meals (no foraging for micro-chips there), kept decent hours, and woe betide any of his mates who tried to keep him out late! The area in which we lived is deeply unfashionable (on the fringes of the notorious Whitehawk Estate in east Brighton), but I never met anything but the best respect from with the kids - we had a good time, plenty of laughs, and while some did suffer from rough-as-shit parents, they also saw through many of their own mums and dads' difficulties, and were very protective of them.

I never met one of them who I could imagine not helping someone - even just carrying in shopping - provided they were treated and talked with in the right way. You act snotty with them, they're going to be awkward, but give them some time, help them or their Mums out occasionally - you have some damn good kids at heart. In fact, they were all looking forward to taking up local jobs, even if ambition wasn't high on the list - just good, solid work learning to be mechanics, or working in music shops, etc. They all recognised their families (most of which worked) needed everyone to pull their weight, and while academically they were not very interested, they certainly did expect to be helping out from the age of around 15.
 
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From The Times (via The Week):

"One of the many sickening aspects to the rioting in the capital was the sight of the Tottenham branch of Carpetright in flames. The company's chairman, Lord Harris of Peckham, has spent more than £20,000,000 on inner-city projects aimed at tackling poverty.

A carpet salesman for more than 50 years, he developed his empire from a family shop in south London, which he took over at the age of 15. A keen backer of city academies, he is deeply involved in their running "to the extent of calling head teachers at 9 a.m. for the latest truancy figures". In short, few individuals have done more to help inner London's youth. Torching his shop is a sorry way for such altruism to be rewarded."
 
Bit of light relief, the following is on Kim Bailey's blog today


This time next year we will be well into the Olympic games.

OPENING CEREMONY..The flame will be ignited by a petrol bomb thrown by a native of the area, in the traditional dress of balaclava and shell suit. The flame will be contained in a large overturned Police van situated on the roof of the stadium.

THE EVENTS..In previous Olympic Games, East London 's competitors have not been particularly successful. In order to redress the balance, some of the events have been altered slightly to the advantage of local athletes.

100 METRES SPRINT..Competitors will have to hold a DVD player and microwave oven (one in each arm) and on the sound of the starting pistol, a Police dog will be released from a cage 10 meters behind the athletes.

110 METRES HURDLES..As above but with added obstacles (i.e. car bonnets, hedges, garden fences, walls etc)

HAMMER..Competitors in this event may choose the type of hammer they wish to use (claw, sledge etc) the winner will be the one who can cause the most physical damage within three timed attempts.

FENCING..Entrants will be asked to dispose of as many stolen goods as possible in 5 minutes.

SHOOTING..A strong challenge is expected from local men in this event. The first target will be a moving police van. In the second round, competitors will aim at a post office clerk, bank teller or Securicor-style Cash-in-transit guard. The traditional .22 rifle has been replaced in this event by a choice of either a Mac 10 or Sawn-off 12-bore shotgun.

BOXING..Entry to the boxing will be restricted to husband and wife teams, and will take place on a Friday night. The husband will be given 15 pints of lager while the wife will be told not to make him any tea when he gets home. The bout will then commence.

CYCLING TIME TRIALS.Competitors will be asked to break into the University bike shed and take an expensive mountain bike owned by some mummy's boy on his first trip away from home. All against the clock.

CYCLING PURSUIT..As above, but the bike will be owned by a visiting member of the Australian rugby team, who will witness the theft.

MODERN PENTATHLON..Amended to include mugging, breaking and entering, flashing, joyriding, arson and generally hanging around.

SWIMMING EVENTS..All waterways are currently being tested for toxicity levels, once oneis found that can support human life, swimming events will be organized. Please note that the Synchronized Swimming event for this year will comprise of dropping acid and watching all the funky ripples on the pool, the specific musical support to this event will be provided by "The Verve".

THE MARATHON..A safe route has yet to be decided.

MEN'S 50KM WALK.. Unfortunately this will have to be cancelled as the Police cannot guarantee the safety of anyone walking the streets of East London, especially anyone that appears to be mincing.

THE CLOSING CEREMONY..Entertainment will include formation rave dancing by members of theStratford Health in the Community anti-drug campaigners, synchronized rock throwing, and music by the Ilford community choir featuring the So Solid Crew. The flame will be extinguished by police riot water cannon following the inevitable pitch invasion by confused West Ham organised hooliganism club. The stadium itself will then be boarded up before the local athletes break into it and remove all the copper piping and the central heating boiler.
 
Good stuff! I emailed some friends the latest 'Minority Mastercard' today, where there's a Bronze or Gold option, depending on the colour of brick chosen.

I particularly like the timed Fencing! Someone with a good sense of wit at Bailey's.
 
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