US Presidential election 2016

When I said a link to the preacher I thought I had added one to quadawi. I'll look back but seems post disappeared

Livingstones friend

Phone is not connecting well

I think the apologists for Hamas and Iran the two states that have routinely executed gays over recent years should have a ******* good look at themselves given the Orlando events . Pretty foul stuff
 
Give it fkin up, will you.

Firstly, Hamas arseholes throwing gays off buildings is not state execution. It is a hate-crime.

Secondly, please link the alleged Iranian execution in 2014, as the only reference I can find is 2011. Either way, it was under Ahemdinejad.

Thirdly, pointing out glaring errors and shabby inconsistencies in your posts, does not equate to being 'apologist' for any Middle Eastern state.
 
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FWIW, homosexuality is punishable by death in the following countries:

Saudia Arabia
Iran
Iraq
Afghanistan
Pakistan
Sudan
Mauritania
Nigeria
Somalia
Yemen

In other words, most of the shi*t-holes of the world.
 
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Get Clive to sort out his fu*cking grammar then. The fact that there was no ? renders it with an entirely different context.

I'm sure Icebreaker is being sarcastic, in any event, you can't blame him for Clive's grammar, that's like blaming Iran for the rise of Salafism

We should acknowledge though that Clive does finally appear to have recognised that Saudi Arabia might be a contributor to this; "Preachers across the Islamic world are largely Saudi or Egyptian"

Now that he's made this connection, it does beg the question of whether he'll start to focus his thoughts in this direction rather than on someone like Ken Livingstone, who with the best will the world, is little more than an irritating midge at best in the wider scheme of things
 
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Livingstone is highlighted as an apologist for hate preachers . As is much of the left who also appear to believe that criticism of Iran is "zionist" and we know what that means

Out of that lust of countries. ... for the umpteenth time Iran is the only one that has as far as I can gather enacted that punishment on a large scale . Excusing Hamas leaderships executions as a hate crime is pathetic

And don't patronise warbler I mentioned preachers in the very first post ok???
 
Please tell us what "large-scale" means, as "far as you have been able to gather", and please place this in the context of a comparison with, say, Saudi Arabia.

Executions are the end-game of a judicial process, and are carried-out by State-appointed actors. Hamas foot-soldiers throwing gays off buildings, just because they're gay, does not meet this criteria. It just means they are murdering cu*nts, and no more than that - whether you like it or not. Please therefore discontinue using words such as "excusing" when referencing my posts on this subject, because it is evident that you are far too much of a simpleton, to interpret them with even a modicum of accuracy. :p
 
[h=2]The number of Iranian homosexuals who have been executed under Iranian law since 1979 is estimated by human rights activists and opponents of the current Iranian regime to be in the range of 4000-6000.[/h]
i am really fcking bored with doing other blabbermouths research for them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

saudi is a horrible country for human rights but there is no mention at all of one single execution

6000 to nil


so will you just accept once and for all that iran is the prime example here? And it was spot on to reference them

and you may even believe that i am not being driven by zionist puppet masters too
 
I came here for a thread about the US Presidential election 2016, I stayed for the bickering :lol:
 
Thanks for the link.

The figures you quote are estimates, and cover the period since 1979.....but I'm not going to dispute them. I confess I'm not entirely surprised by it, given how oppressive that regime was for years.

Regardless, the point I was trying to get across was that, if you are gay and living in an Islamic country, you're basically fu*cked (if you'll pardon the phrase). Iran is no different in how it treats homosexuality, to Saudi or any of the other countries I mentioned. In my view, you can't really use these stats covering a period of almost 40 years ago, and extrapolate them to back-up a claim that Iran is the prime contemporary example of judicial killings of gays.......unless you have an axe to grind with Iran in the first place.
 
Ffs

iran has been executing up until at least 2014 not "40 years ago" . Across 4o years that's 100 to 150 a year . Enough?

how ot can you say Iran is "no different" when it's killed thousands whereas other nations have killed nil. This is ludicrous

i have no doubt that the oppression and rhetoric is disgusting right across the Muslim world. Saudi is disgustingly proposing bringing in killings but the fact remains it hasn't done so

you mention Pakistan. There is not one recorded case of execution for homosexuality. In fact it would seem to be barely concealed .How can you say that's the same as Iran?

maybe I should have given Pakistan instead of Iran as the leading example even though there isn't seemingly a single proven case but just to prove I'm not a Zionist puppet controlled by the rothchilds lizards and woody allen
 
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It is ludicrous to suggest that the other nations I mentioned have not executed gays. The countries on the list I provided are hardly bastions of freedom of information, so what you find on Google is unlikely to be conclusive. For example, in Saudia Arabia, gay men are often charged with a further, bogus, crime, that allows them to be executed under Law. Of course, as you know, Saudi Arabia is now seeking to do away with this deceit, and pass a law that allows them to be put to death, just for being gay anyway.

I don't think you are a Zionist puppet.......and have been very careful over however many year is it now, never to paint you as such. But you do have an axe to grind about Iran. This is undeniable, in my view........we have just never gotten to the bottom of why this is the case.

You have always portrayed Iran as vastly more dangerous to the global community than, say Saudi or Pakistan - yet Iran is actively fighting the kind of Sunni militancy that is a clear-and-present danger to the West. And whether you like it or not, the Rouhani regime has certainly moderated Iran's position vis-a-vis engagement with the West. This being the case, I simply don't understand why you continue to peddle it that Iran are the worst-of-the-worst, when it is clear to most everyone else, that Sunni militancy problem is a product of countries which are our alleged allies.

I just find your position on Iran incongruous and puzzling in equal measure. What is it about Iran that gets your hackles up? Appreciate we;ve gone miles off-topic, so maybe answer this and then we can move on.
 
You really don't get it at all do you

the Zionist puppet was a reference to anither poster who's seems to be from the nus

Unlike you I have researched before mouthing off. Saudi has NOT publicly executed gays. In fact you would have to look hard to find any reference to this at all. Pakistan there is no record whatsoever

what is difficult to understand about the difference between that and a country that has gleefully and publicly excuted 6000

this has nothing whatsoever to do with the wider issues of Iran. Don't fcking come it with that crap, that's pathetic

why are you so wound up about by far the most striking example being used?

its as if we were writing about 20th century oppression of Jews and ignoring nazi Germany. Incredible....
 
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To finish once and for all, unlike some who want to point at Saudi or Israel every time, this is not about a Zionist targeting of Iran. I did not take you for a far left corbyn supporting thickhead

READ THE ORGINAL POST. If I am mentioning countries that execute gays who the fck do you think first comes to mind.?
 
You were the one who singled-out Iran and Palestine as examples (though I note you have since added an 'etc' rider), rather than use the generic.

Maybe you were right to do so in Iran's case (Hamas example I still think is different). I'm perhaps guilty of wanting the new mob in Tehran to be radically (pardon the pun) different from the last lot. For me, that is very-much heading in the right direction, but I concede there is probably a long way to go, in terms of both building trust, and seeing an improvement in Iran's Human Rights record.

Regardless, I then moved on to ask why you appear so fixated with Iran (and have been for years) - to the exclusion of other Islamic states. You appear to have chosen not to address this question, which is fair enough, and not relevant to the subject matter of the thread anyway.
 
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Hillary has upset the Saudis

"it is long past time for the Saudis, Qataris and Kuwaitis and others to stop their citizens from funding extremist organisations".

The big difference is that for years Clinton was part of the administration that turned blidn eyes to Saudi Arabia and accepted their excuses and inactivity. She does of course receive the intelligence briefings and knows that they promise one thing, and do another (or do nothing). Her patience is running out, and more critically, the American people are also realising that they're being sold a pig in a poke on this one and are growing increasingly vocal about Saudi

http://www.theage.com.au/world/saud...oil-kingdom-to-terrorism-20160617-gpla3n.html

Also, in news more relevant to the thread, Hillary's short list for the Veep has been leaked (coming shortly after allegations that the Russians had hacked her campaign and stolen attack material designated for the Trump man)


She apparently is considering Senator Elizabeth Warren (MA), Senator Sherrod Brown (OH), Senator Tim Kaine (VA), Senator Cory Booker (NJ), Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Julian Castro (TX), Secretary of Labor Tom Perez (MD), Representative Xavier Becerra (CA-34), Representative Tim Ryan (OH-13), and Mayor Eric Garcetti of Los Angeles (CA).
 
The real reason the US is now having a dash at Saudi is that fracking has massively reduced their reliance on oil imports.

Surely it's stuck-on that Clinton will select a bloke as running-mate? Cory Booker looks a big price at 16/1, though she may feel she needs to go with someone from a Southern state, and the 7/2 about Castro (Julian) is probably the best option.
 
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I think Trump has probably locked the Hispanic vote up for her, she doesn't need to go with Castro, and in any event, he's a bit lightweight (Democrat Rubio) the sort of career manufactured politician that hasn't really done well on this cycle. In any case, I think the old idea of a north/ south ticket for the Democrats isn't relevant since Nixon's 'southern strategy' and the schism with the Dixiecrats. It was instrumental with Kennedy putting Johnson on the ticket, but that was before Strom Thurmond et al. The only state she might be sniffing around is Georgia, but she doesn't need it. If she wins Georgia, she's won anyway. Georgia might start trending purple, and possibly go blue in the next 10 years. It's almost like a natural correction given that so many southern voters are voting against their own economic interests. Texas is another state that has a shifting demographic, but I think we're still a generation away before the Democrats re-enter the south big time. It's one those bizzare voting patterns really. It's kind of addressed in the book "What's the Matter with Kansas", whereby it explores how the GOP have succeeded in introducing emotive hot-button issues that are able to move people who should be natural economic Democrats, into voting Republican

The problem with Booker (and Warren and Brown) is that they'll be replaced by Republicans in the house. Having said that, Hillary is struggling with young voters, and if she wants to mimic the Obama presidency and reach this cohort, I can see that Booker is a decent bet. Dare she risk allowing Christie to nominate his replacement in New Jersey though?

Strangely enough, the one who hits most of the critieria is Perez, but is he televisual? He looks a bit odd to me

Incidentally the four polls carried out with the Orlando shootings in them by way of influence show Trump losing ground to Hillary Clinton. Basically he blew the discussion that followed. If there is any saving grace in the findings for him, it's that these are national polls. There is some evidence that its antis doubling down on him from the relative immaterial bunkers of safe Democrat states. My own gues is that its Hispnaics, and its putting states like New Mexico, Nevada, and Colorado out of reach for him. The battleground states (excluding the three just mentioned which he can't win the WH off anyway) still look more even, but fewer polls exists post Orlando for these, so we'll have to wait until the conventions to get a better picture. If Trump is unable to convert terrorist attacks into support though (and the early evidence suggests he can't), then he's got a mountain climb


America only gets about 15% of her oil from Saudi I think, but you're undoubtedly correct that as the world starts to move towards renewables the need to kow tow to Saudi Arabia diminishes (hence why I included the famous Makhtoum quote about riding camels and driving Mercedes). Its really about trade and how the US has protected Saudi Arabia in return for being allowed to dip into her as a backdoor funding pool. Foreign policy based on trade is always going to be greyer than one based on morality, but it isn't a one way street. This is exchange from Syriania/ See No Evil, probably sums it up

Nasir: “My cousins aren’t bright enough to be anything more than finger puppets and my brother has faith only in his own cunning. What do you suppose they are up to, my brother and these American lawyers? Tell me. What are they thinking?”

Woodman: “What are they thinking? They’re thinking that it’s running out. It’s running out. And 90 percent of what’s left is in the Middle East. Look at the progression: Versailles, Suez, 1973, Gulf War I, Gulf War II. This is a fight to the death. So what are they thinking? Great. They’re thinking ‘keep playing. Keep buying yourself new toys. Keep spending $50,000 a night on your hotel room. But don’t invest in your infrastructure. Don’t build a real economy.’ So that when you finally wake up, they will have sucked you dry. And you will have squandered the greatest natural resource in history.”

Nasir:
“I studied at Oxford. I have a Ph.D. from Georgetown. I want to create a parliament. I want to give women the right to vote. I want an independent judiciary. I want to start a petroleum exchange in the Middle East, cut the speculators out of the business. Why are the major oil exchanges in London and New York, anyway? I’ll put all of our energy up for competitive bidding. I’ll run pipe through Iran to Europe, like you proposed. I’ll ship to China. Anything that achieves efficiency and maximizes profit. Profit, which I will then use to rebuild my country.”

Woodman: “Great. That’s exactly what you should do.”

Nasir: “Exactly. Except your president rings my father and says ‘I’ve got unemployment in Texas, Kansas, Washington state.’ One phone call later, we’re stealing out of our social programs in order to buy overpriced airplanes. We owed the Americans but we’ve repaid that debt. I accepted a Chinese bid, the highest bid. And suddenly, I’m a terrorist. I’m a godless communist. Dean Whiting, who represents not only these aggrieved royals and my brother but also Connex Oil. They’ve been pressuring my father to invalidate the Chinese contract. But they underestimate him. This is about his legacy to his people.


I think Norway is due to ban internal combustion by 2025 IIRC, and Chile announced last week that they were 100% on renewables for their energy supply now. Even Scotland met their targets last week. It seems that with every passing week there's a new energy announcement moving in this direction. China now gets more of their energy from renewables than carbon polluting sources I seem to recall too. The move has been rapid.

Saudi has placed a massive bet on the price and doubled down on it by pumping an over supply to try and deter countries from the prohibitive capital investment that renewables need, but the world is basically turning its back on the middle east. Indeed, the Saudis have announced a mass privatisation programme, an investment programme of $2tn, and their intention to go to the markets to raise funds for the first time in ages. I think they realise they're position is unsustainable. Lets be honest, 80% of their workforce are foreigners. The country is based on the labour of paid workers. They do very little themselves and have next to nothing outside of vanity property developments and oil infrastruture.

The Saudis are alert to how vulnerable they are, hence why last year they agreed to shelter Pakistani nuclear weapons on their soil to deter an Indian first strike - yeah right - they know that a few blind eyes might not be so blind in the future (this one is still being fought over and bleeds into the American/ Iran deal of course). They've also made massive defence procurements in the last 5 years too, now the second biggest market in the world I think (certainly third). Obviously these are the sorts of decisions you would take if all you're doing is sponsoring educational trusts and poverty relief programmes. Oh and Trump thinks it would be a good idea if they became an independent nuclear power because we can't stop them anyway - I mean, what could go wrong? "'I Hate Proliferation' But It Would Be Better if Japan, Saudi Arabia, and South Korea Had Nuclear Weapons" - 29/3/16 - honestly Donald it wouldn't!!!
 
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I know Clinton is a commie and they can now trade with the country of cigars but picking Castro as a running mate is detente too far in my opinion
 
I thought you had a soft spot for Hillary?

In all seriousness how the names CLINTON/ CASTRO might play out on a placard in Florida has been speculated on (they decided it wouldn't make any difference) but its still a bad optic
 
Clive.....this is just a question, and isn't intended to antagonise......but how do you view Obama's performance as President, given your scepticism/grave concerns, at the outset of his Presidency?
 
You asked that before. And I answered. Wasn't even that long ago which is a worry

i will say that I have been impressed with his commitment and funding for research into Alzheimer's
 
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