Wankerists

No ec. You are wrong frankly

To give an example. When the first attack was made on the WTC America was not "at war" with anyone at all

You have to get to grips with their idealogy before making such statements. They don't even hide their beliefs
 
America have created many terrorists..and as we have tagged along with them..we too must take blame for doing so too.

Every time a family gets wiped out in bomb attacks..and one or two sons survive..they then grow up and want revenge

no...thats not the case here..but we have nowt to be proud of as far as killing innocent people is concerned

i think over the next 10 years we are going to get a lot of this type of attack...people with no actual gripe tagging along with the "cause"

the inner cities are ripe for developing scum like the two we witnessed yesterday..they are basically rat holes
 
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Now I know i'm taking part in insane and guerrilla politics for a second here, but those two guys yesterday have no more reason to declare war on Britain than I can claim I should fight a war for the I.R.A based on a bit of paddy blood floating around my body.
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Sorry, I don't think the comparison is useful.

Although they made some blunders, the British interest in late 20th century Ireland was mostly about finding a solution that both sides of the divide could live with. At this stage even those of us with a full quota of paddy blood have no reason to declare war on Britain.
 
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Ec. You are not following. Americas mere existence rather than action "creates terrorists" Same as the mere existence of Jews too. That is the nature of jihad It's a declared war not a response
 
Grey, if a British citizen turns to Islam this is NO excuse, wars abroad or otherwise, for murdering fellow British citizens.

That guy could have been anyone, they might not have even known for sure that he was a soldier. The fact he is a soldier is no justification either.

Maybe anyone who voted for New Labour and Tony Blair could be classed as a target under this perverse school of thought.

Maybe the killer of Jill Dando (whoever that was) had a legitimate cause abroad too, eh?
 
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Grey said:
Sorry, I don't think the comparison is useful.

Although they made some blunders, the British interest in late 20th century Ireland was mostly about finding a solution that both sides of the divide could live with. At this stage even those of us with a full quota of paddy blood have no reason to declare war on Britain.
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I'm not referring to what the British did or did not do. I'm briefly trying to put myself in those bastards shoes yesterday, and if still doesn't make sense to me, even as a plastic paddy :)

The comparison is obviously worth 2 minutes of your time so if can't be that bad. :)
 
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Nothing about foreign policy will change after yesterday, Tony Blair won't get charged for war crimes and the middle east will still be the middle east.

We're just left with one guy hacked to pieces. Clearly some want to feast on his bones.
 
High Rate

no one is saying its justified..but there is a reason why its happened and will happen again..why doesn't it happen Australia i wonder?

maybe they are just murdering scum without any reason to do what they did..just using the cause to excuse their murdering ways...i doubt it mesen... but who really knows?

we might just be unlucky in getting terrorist attacks that other countries don't get...mmm
 
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Well fine, there will be no fish in the sea in 50 years, guess I should go out and mutilate a fisherman eh?

That's not logic EC1, ultimately when crunched down to its barest form, you're making excuses.

'it' was as brutal as it gets.
 
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High Rate said:
Well fine, there will be no fish in the sea in 50 years, guess I should go out and mutilate a fisherman eh?

That's not logic EC1, ultimately when crunched down to its barest form, you're making excuses.

'it' was as brutal as it gets.
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i haven't made any excuses for anyone..we have circumstances that suggest that we get too many terrorist attacks for it to be random is what i suggest.

As far as how brutal it was..as bad as it gets..and both deserve the death penalty once all info is extracted from them

the problem now is that when public feeling dies down those doing the shooting of said scum will be themselves on "trial"..would imagine already suspended pending investigation. Whereas in reality they should be getting commendations.

Also in a while..there will be some sorry arse moaning about how these two's rights are not being respected in some way

Its these last two issues i find annoying
 
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High Rate said:
Well fine, there will be no fish in the sea in 50 years, guess I should go out and mutilate a fisherman eh?

That's not logic EC1, ultimately when crunched down to its barest form, you're making excuses.

'it' was as brutal as it gets.
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but...you never answered..why doesn't this happen in Australia though..or New zealand..or a few dozen other places?
 
Probably because Australia is full of Australians, New Zealand is full of New Zealanders and we are full of all kind of immigrant shite who have no respect or interest for the country or culture they live in.....quite easy really
 
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There are jihadist groups in australia tahts for sure. theres a big problem in sweden and just recently a large attack was foiled in canada

not long after 9/11 there was a huge plot foiled in italy

AQ kidnappers have killed westerners from all countries.

Its complete crap to suggest that these attacks are just about "foreign policy"

Australia? Never heard of the Bali bombing then?

How can anyone discuss terrorism by islamists and forget that? Fcking hell
 
The 2002 Bali bombings occurred on 12 October 2002 in the tourist district of Kuta on the Indonesian island of Bali. The attack killed 202 people (including 88 Australians, 38 Indonesian, 27 Britons, 7 Americans and 5 Swedish citizens).[1] A further 240 people were injured.
Various members of Jemaah Islamiyah, a violent Islamist group,
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Maybe you missed it on the news
 
Ask the christians in south Phillipines? Ask the south sudanese who were subjected to genocide? Ask muslims in jordan who witnessed the bombings by AQ there? Ask the jewish community in argentina? Ask the christians in nigeria?

Mumbai? yes???

shall we go on?
 
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Clive...have a day off for a minute

we are a regular target is what i'm getting at..not a one off hit

you could look back 50 years and probably everywhere in the world has some sort of attack..i'm talking about being on alert 24/7

you can't catch a train now without being reminded about leaving your bags..there are no bins on railway stations..our whole life in most areas changed forever...because we are are more likely to be attacked than most other places....why is that?..is it because we are USA's sidekicks?..or just a coincidence?

why is it that when we/USA kill innocent people in their own country.. its played down or not mentioned..but when its done here its a big story?

surely we are no different from innocent people everywhere..but somehow we think we are a special case.

maybe we have just been targeted by accident..just unlucky eh?

If this is just a random attack with no connection to foreign policy..why were both perps being watched by security services in the first place?

i don't know all the answers like you do Clive..but i will ask questions all the same
 
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Did anyone else thing it was completely wrong for the television channels to show the video of one of the assailants spouting out his rhetoric. At the very least, I thought they should have shown it without the sound. It only takes what he said to tip one other person into doing something similar. Maybe it was just me, I don't know.
 
There have been more australian civilianss killed by islamists than british ec

Claiming that australia has never been attacked and then dismissing bali as some one off is pretty gross

Frankly you havent answered the point at all.

we are not out there "killing innocent civilians" for the fun of it. we are targeting those that want to create and AQ state which would be a huge base (as Afganistan was) for spreading even more terrorism than we have seen before. unfortunately drones seem to be the only effective way. The alternative is continual slaughter of many many more and certainly not just westerners

you simply dont appreciate that these attacks as in sudan india phillipines and countless other places are not because of :"what we have done" but because of who we are

They even state that very clearly themselves
 
If this is just a random attack with no connection to foreign policy..why were both perps being watched by security services in the first place?
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So if a terrorist stated that he just wanted to kill jews and christians regardless (which they do) he wouldnt be watched by the security services?
 
Such a brutal act, which I feel should not have been given the oxygen of TV broadcasting, does of course arouse passions. I certainly became angry but that is the aim of such actions and therefore one has try to think impassionately.


The condemnation by several of the so called Muslim leaders was equivocal, they condemn the individual act but state that similar acts will naturally occur until the UK changes its foreign policy, Bukhari actually said that until other Muslim leaders become less 'weak' and take action to make HMG change. He definitely did not say that the UK muslim community should work harder to curtail the growth of extremism. Not condoning but far short of what was required. Livingstone gave exactly the same message.

Let's look at the issues to see what can be done. Get out of Iraq, no, we've already done that. Never should have gone but we haven't punished those who led us there. Afghanistan, the vile repressive regime gave shelter to people aiming to terrorise us and supposedly we are liberating the people, women's rights, education etc. Well we're getting out of there and they will kill each other. Mali, the Jihadists enslave the native people, no responsibility to help, let's leave 'em to it. Libya, oops we helped there but lesson learned. Or may not, got to help the Syrians, fundamentalists and all against the evil Assad. Errr! Let's leave em to it. We can apply similar logic everywhere -evil dictator, torture, human rights, massacres- nah, not my problem, mate. See Yah!

Do I hear international responsibility, colonial guilt,- we tried and you lot blow us up. Besides it costs us lots of money which we ain't got no more! So c'est la vie.

Follow that policy and these leaders tell us we won't get attacked in the street. Wrong they will still attack us and more so because they will attribute our change of policy to their terror tactics. So more and more to come whatever happens.

Why us? It isn't only us but we have been pretty tolerant. UK attacks come from UK individuals almost without exception. We welcome the destitute, the persecuted and the raving Jihadists. As a country we can be proud of our humanitarian attitude but maybe we've overdone it. There are disaffected, alienated, individuals in every society, every race, every religion ,belief or ism. The usual result is the eruption of rioting each decade or so. Why so sporadic, because there are no leaders, no tangible common cause. What we have done and are doing is to allow extremists to provide that leadership, cause and spread racial and religious hatred for their own ends.

It irritates me that we can deal with the likes of the EDL with the ever so British weapon of ridicule backed by legislation. The vast majority of people in the UK ( and Ireland) accept that discrimination against others for whatever reason should not and can not be tolerated. Ending discrimination requires concerted positive actions from all sides of any division thereby isolating the extremists. What we have now is one side that doesn't ( or dare not) take the necessary action. Bukhari is an example. There is no real crackdown on extremist Islamists because HMG cannot be sure of strong support from the Muslim leaders. The Yanks don't let them in, we do and we let them preach. We try to harmonise, they seek to differentiate. If my own opinion is correct then the overwhelming majority of British Muslims have no truck whatsoever with the Jihadists but are failed by their leaders or absence thereof.

Surveillance and undercover operations are a flawed partial solution ( historic activities evidence that). HMG must get the message across that we are not anti Islam but anti extremist of any sort and take the necessary action to curtail the activities of the extremists with hopefully the positive support of the Muslim community. The alternative is that the racists, bigots et al will have their excuses and ultimately generate the intolerance sought by the Jihadists.
 
great post

The key with the likes of Bukhari is that by immediately linking it with "foreign policy" he's saying "if you don't do what we say..."

Mali is a good example. Anyone objecting to the action there is frankly supportive of the forced aq takeover. It's as simple as that. It's open and shut
 
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Wankerist only Grassy could come up with that :) I prefer to call the racists because that is what they are.

When I lived in Scotland I has a Pakistani business partner who had lived most of his life in Glasgow but as a kid at School in Pakistan he was taught almost everyday that they were righteous and Americans were infidels.

I visited his home unknown to his parents but never once was I allowed to lay eyes upon his wife who cooked lunch for us but never appeared. When asked why he told me as far as her parents and his were concerned I was also an infidel.

Fortunately my friend was more of a Glaswegian than I was so as much as he was concerned it was all bullshit but trough respect to his parents he played by their rules.

What he told me way back then has always stuck in my mind about Muslims.

The west is forever being accused of being racists but as far as my friend is concerned Muslims are the most racist people on the planet. "Do not think for one minute they like you no matter how nice they may seem,to them you are below them, the scum of the earth and they would wipe us all out if they could"

True? maybe maybe not but when someone talks about the minorities they are kidding themsleves.

I live in Bangkok and we have many foreign Muslims living here but 90% don't mix with anyone other than their own kind......Why?

Australians, Germans, Brits, Americans, Belgians, French,Italian don't live in hoards, they mix with everyone and anyone.

But Iranians, Pakistani's, Suadis, etc all gather in one spot and apart from serving you in a restaurant they don't and don't want to associate with anyone who is not Muslim.

I'm sure you guys back in the UK see the same thing. Masses of them all living in the one area.

These places are like a time bomb waiting to go off and an incident like the one in Woolich is just the type of thing to spark it off.

These incidents are not the idea of 2 individuals. They are just brainwashed idiots who have been promised 50 odd virgins or whatever when they are mowed down by the police. Unlucky for them the police kept them alive which wasn't what was expected at a guess.

The plotters who came up with this are out to disrupt and if that means gangs of young Brits attacking Muslims and causing riots and disruption in London that would be a big plus to them

The UK has made it far to easy for these people to set up home and bleed the place dry.

In Thailand you can't work if you are taking a job that a Thai can do and you can't live here full time unless you can prove you can support yourself from monies coming from outside the country, like a works pension or savings.........Why the hell doesn't the UK do that? If someone has nothing to offer a country in the way of skills or can't add to it's wealth they should be deported.

Of course there two sides to every story. Someone mentioned America has created terrorist and no doubt that is true.

btw I know nothing about anything when it comes to this type of thing and I just write from my own experiences. I was once in a room in a travel agents with a radical Muslim from Palestine who said and I quote " We stick a bomb in a basket of eggs and blow up a cafe and the Israelis jump in an Apache Helcopter and fire missiles down our streets killing woman and children and the west call us terrorist" " When IRA tried to kill Mrs Thatcher did you fire missiles down the streets of Belfast". "If you had there would have been hell to pay" "Not quite fair is it?" I couldn't get out of that room quick enough that fooker was one scary dude.

Make no mistake these people will never stop but they will never win all they will succeed in doing is turning the Middle East into one big car park one day then no more 9/11's and no more wankersists.
 
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