World Cup Group C

I am just seeing the discussion above about 'African' teams and lacking mental strength. What ignorance. I would stake a lot of money DO has seen no more than zero African matches in the last few years.

Algeria were excellent by the way (and I was on Belgium minus 1). More mental strength than the western familiar Europeans teams.
 
I dont think that algerians were part of the equation. If you get my meaning. Pity there are no sub saharan africans on forum but then again they might be mature enough noy to squeal like stuck pigs.
 
Yeah, Africa is such a vast continent and the Arabs of the northern part are as different from their darker skinned cousins as we are from Russians.
 
Bar the Bull said:
A tremendously gutsy qualification campaign with a limited group of players. Of course, maybe beating other possibly mentally weak teams doesn't count.

So I take it you have no basis? Just half-baked assumptions?
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I’m not convinced Algeria have ever had to show the kind of mental strength I’m talking about: the kind that gets you to regularly over-achieve or overcome setbacks against superior opposition.

Algeria:
World Cup 2010 – scraped through against Egypt after a play-off. That might show mental strength at that level. A bit like me beating my brother at headie-tennis. When they got to S Africa they managed one point (v England) without scoring and finished bottom of a group won by USA. Are you trying to argue that ‘holding’ England to 0-0 shows mental strength?

African Nations Cup 2010 – Lost to Malawi, racked up a cricket score of 1-0 v Mali and drew 0-0 with Angola. Champions stuff. A fair bit was made of their defeat of Ivory Coast but that highlights my point about the lack of mental strength in African football since most pundits expected IC to win. They wilted against stronger-minded opponents. Yet Algeria capitulated against Egypt. They couldn’t beat Nigeria in the 3-4 playoffs.

World Cup 2014 – to get there they won their group against Mali, Benin and Rwanda, and then they struggled to beat Burkina Faso to get to Brazil. In their only game so far they got to go ahead from the penalty spot but couldn’t hold on to the lead and lost to two second half goals. Mental strength?

They haven’t qualified for the Olympic Games since 1980.

I’ll ask you a slightly different question. Where is the evidence that they do have mental strength?

I stand accused of racism here which angers and saddens me but it probably says more about my accuser(s) than it does about me. The race issue never entered my head but I don’t expect you to believe that.

As far as I’m concerned I have answered your question. You have not answered mine. As far as I am concerned you are not worth replying to any further. Don’t bother replying as I am putting you on ignore.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
I’m not convinced Algeria have ever had to show the kind of mental strength I’m talking about: the kind that gets you to regularly over-achieve or overcome setbacks against superior opposition.

Algeria:
World Cup 2010 – scraped through against Egypt after a play-off. That might show mental strength at that level. A bit like me beating my brother at headie-tennis. When they got to S Africa they managed one point (v England) without scoring and finished bottom of a group won by USA. Are you trying to argue that ‘holding’ England to 0-0 shows mental strength?

African Nations Cup 2010 – Lost to Malawi, racked up a cricket score of 1-0 v Mali and drew 0-0 with Angola. Champions stuff. A fair bit was made of their defeat of Ivory Coast but that highlights my point about the lack of mental strength in African football since most pundits expected IC to win. They wilted against stronger-minded opponents. Yet Algeria capitulated against Egypt. They couldn’t beat Nigeria in the 3-4 playoffs.

World Cup 2014 – to get there they won their group against Mali, Benin and Rwanda, and then they struggled to beat Burkina Faso to get to Brazil. In their only game so far they got to go ahead from the penalty spot but couldn’t hold on to the lead and lost to two second half goals. Mental strength?

They haven’t qualified for the Olympic Games since 1980.

I’ll ask you a slightly different question. Where is the evidence that they do have mental strength?

I stand accused of racism here which angers and saddens me but it probably says more about my accuser(s) than it does about me. The race issue never entered my head but I don’t expect you to believe that.

As far as I’m concerned I have answered your question. You have not answered mine. As far as I am concerned you are not worth replying to any further. Don’t bother replying as I am putting you on ignore.
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Did you know any of the above history when making the original comment? Sounds like digging for evidence to support a previously held opinion?
 
Flagship uberalles said:
Did you know any of the above history when making the original comment? Sounds like digging for evidence to support a previously held opinion?
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Not in detail, obviously. It is an opinion I have held for some time going back to when Greece won the Euros. They won because as a unit they functioned much more strongly than the individual components. (This current Greek side are different.)

The seeds of it go back much further, though, to my own schoolboy days. We had a professional coach, ie he coached at Celtic and Scotland. He didn't just work on skills and tactics, he also got us into a mindset which pretty much meant we had won every match before we set foot on the pitch. We lost only twice in one particular season (never drew a single game) and won the league every year I was there.

To push us further he would arrange matches against teams from other authorities. We beat the Glasgow league winners on their park then played a Dundee Schools Select but they were just better than us (as you'd expect) although we held them 2-2 in the first leg.

He kept telling us it wasn't about how good we were. It was about how good a team we were but he would speak to us individually about areas for improvement and how it would improve the unit.

When I played amateur we beat a team 10-1 the week we were due to play them in the cup final. We were complacent and found ourselves 4-0 down after about half an hour. None of us kicked the ball. It was 5-0 at half-time. We regrouped at half-time and got stuck into each other verbally but in a positive way and came steaming out for the second half. Think Chile the other night. We got two goals chalked off for offside, two or three other very dodgy offside decisions against us and eventually got a goal. Five minutes later we got another. To my astonishment, one of their guys shouted to his mates, 'Fcuk sake, guys! if this lot score again we're fukced!' And they were 5-2 up at the time. We got it back to 5-4 but time ran out on us. It turned out the other team played a few ringers but we took it on the chin and moved on.

So when I watch the big tournaments I watch for teams that play as a unit. Germany are famous for it. Scotland and Eire used to be like that. Scotland are still like that when it comes to playing England. We'll take the odd hammering but we'll turn them over another time. Brazil started the huddle which Celtic adopted under Tommy Burns. I think it might have been Tony Mowbray's idea to do so? The irony is that Celtic never won anything under Tommy despite playing what is generally accepted as the best football in the club's history.

I've never seen any of the African nations play like that. Algeria and Egypt are maybe less like that. I haven't seen enough of Morocco to know but I suspect if they were stronger they'd be more successful at least within Africa. I think the Middle-Easterns are stronger, more like Turkey.

America has mental strength in abundance. (I was going to say spades...) Canada I am not so sure about. Some of the South Americans have it. Paraguay had it one or two tournaments ago. Like I said before, I'm very impressed with Chile's energy towards each other but I'm not sure how long they can sustain it or each other. Other teams fall apart when things get tough.

Mexico have it historically but sometimes lose it.

We talk about it in the racing threads. Some horses can eyeball another out of a race. Boxers do it. Poker players like to think they do it. Some teachers can do it to disruptive kids while others lose control of the same kids. It happens in so many walks of life.

Look at what Clough did at Forest. He made two or three key big money signings but filled the team with players who knew what to do and how to do it, then he got them to work better as a unit.

Look at Scotland under Strachan compared with Levein or Vogts or Burley.

Alf Ramsey took a bunch of journeymen and put them in with Moore, Bobby Charlton and Peters and made them world champions (with a little help from a Russian official) until they came up against Scotland.:)

But because I have nurtured this belief over decades and I happen not to see it in a group of teams that happen to live in the same part of the world I'm racist.

Like I said, it probably reflects more on the accusers.
 
Also, I would try not to confuse lack of mental toughness with mental fatigue, which will eventually catch up on just about everyone.

Some of the big names look to be suffering from the latter. Pretty much the entire Spanish team. Khedira too.

It might be that a lot of the players that got to the Champions League final are having a reaction. They may have had a 'crash' following the euphoria or dejection of the final and may be struggling to get their head back into gear. Benzema looks a notable exception. I'm struggling to think of anyone else who played in the final to have shone so far. Even Ronaldo was well off his best the other night.
 
Rightly so, Colin. Such generalisations have no basis in fact and inhabit the grey area surrounding what may or may not constitute racism. My accuser implies I was denigrating the black African teams. If I have to go back through the thread and 'view' the ones I have on Ignore to see what they have said I could but I'm choosing not to. I'm letting my imagination run riot :lol::blink: If I'm wrong about that so be it. I've been wrong about plenty of things before.

But I resent being told I'm being racist.

PS - I would presume/hope that if I was being racist I would be reported so if Col gets in touch I'll hear him out.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
Also, I would try not to confuse lack of mental toughness with mental fatigue, which will eventually catch up on just about everyone.

Some of the big names look to be suffering from the latter. Pretty much the entire Spanish team. Khedira too.

It might be that a lot of the players that got to the Champions League final are having a reaction. They may have had a 'crash' following the euphoria or dejection of the final and may be struggling to get their head back into gear. Benzema looks a notable exception. I'm struggling to think of anyone else who played in the final to have shone so far. Even Ronaldo was well off his best the other night.
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Khedira suffering from mental fatigue???
Khedira suffered a big time knee injury approx. 6 months ago and it's a minor miracle that he can play at the level he is. If anything he suffers from not having the rigorous physical preparation before the tournament. He is one of the most mentally tough players on the German team.
 
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