K
Kathy
Guest
So Merlin, from what age do you feel that murderers that are legally classified as minors should be executed. I'm intrigued.
10? 12? 14? younger?
10? 12? 14? younger?
15 Year Old Guilty Of Murder
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Merlin the Magician
At the Start
BAR no not necessarily, but I feel very strong about this case for taking an eye for a eye, the victim was already a partial paraplegic and the poor kid suffered further at the hands of this 14yr old, if you look at his photo he seems a mature 15 yr old to me?
Bar the Bull
At the Start
Dear oh dear!
He "looks" mature?
He "looks" mature?
K
Kathy
Guest
Merlin, have you ever been called for Jury service?
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
yes 3 times they were all guilty I convinced the rest of the jury..........
BrianH
At the Start
Your opinions are your own but get the facts right - it is not a maximum sentence of twelve years, it is quite the opposite, a minimum sentence of twelve years.
BrianH
At the Start
Henry Fonda lives on
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
QUOTE=BrianH,Oct 16 2006, 10:42 PM]
I think you'll find that I am right read the whole item below........
READ THE OUTCOME HERE
AND HERE HOW HIS FAMILY FEEL HERE[
Your opinions are your own but get the facts right - it is not a maximum sentence of twelve years, it is quite the opposite, a minimum sentence of twelve years. [/QUOTE]
I think you'll find that I am right read the whole item below........
READ THE OUTCOME HERE
AND HERE HOW HIS FAMILY FEEL HERE[
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Phil Waters
Guest
Hamer was given a life sentence and told he must spend at least 12 years behind bars.
That means, he must spend a minimum of twelve years, not a maximum of twelve years.
That means, he must spend a minimum of twelve years, not a maximum of twelve years.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
But a life sentence is 10 yrs normally????? they have stated 12 yrs here........ so that exceeds a life sentence and becomes a max if all things are equal and he don't play up inside... he gets releast after 12 yrs thats what I am stating ....
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Phil Waters
Guest
Merlin, you just make things up as you go along, don't you?
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Why should I ? I have posted my evidence in the two posts from the SKYE news site. its interpretation and I interpret it as being this way....
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Phil Waters
Guest
I mean the part about the length of time a life sentence is etc.
P
Phil Waters
Guest
Ian Huntley got 24 years. He'll never be released. Work that one out.
Of course children have killed children. Very few, but occasionally it happens. What's so shocking about that? What's far more appalling is that once we've learned action and reaction, cause and effect, consequences, etc. as adults, that as ADULTS we kill children as well as other adults!
You can be a very forward, precocious 13 y.o. with a mental age far ahead of your peers. You can also be a slow-witted, dull 19 y.o. with a mental age permanently set at perhaps 8 or 9, which psychologists agree is before full mental reasoning kicks in. If you are going through the usual anxieties of the teenaged years (issues of your own sexuality, your status in your peer group, your standing within the family, parental support - emotional and material) and you're feeling, as the report says, 'isolated', then you probably spend hours fantasising about what it's like to have a soulmate, someone to love, or someone to love you - especially if those feelings are lacking from the parent base. It's supposed to be an age when you begin tentatively exploring such feelings. But if you're described as a loner (presumably feeling an outsider, or unworthy, or something like this) you don't have a group of friends with whom to discuss these issues. And, presumably, there wasn't a feeling of the ability to do so at home, either. I have no idea, but perhaps Hamer's Mum had switched off emotionally after the death of his sibling?
Hamer has committed a dreadful act, there's no doubt. However, a teenage boy killing a peer is not a lot different to the thousands of teenaged boys who kill THEMSELVES every year (in the civilized, Western world). These kids (and it's usually boys) are striking out at some malady in their lives - even those who've done well at school and are in line for Uni, sports captainships, etc. are not exempt from the roll of suicidal youngsters. They've burst into schools in the USA and shot down their classmates. They've murdered single children from time to time, largely in the heat of the moment. They kill themselves far more often. There is something going on which makes it impossible for them to pursue another day, which is a huge and largely unreported and undiscussed tragedy.
Merlin, you're incapable of even wanting to try to understand any human misfunctioning. Your answer is Neanderthal.
You can be a very forward, precocious 13 y.o. with a mental age far ahead of your peers. You can also be a slow-witted, dull 19 y.o. with a mental age permanently set at perhaps 8 or 9, which psychologists agree is before full mental reasoning kicks in. If you are going through the usual anxieties of the teenaged years (issues of your own sexuality, your status in your peer group, your standing within the family, parental support - emotional and material) and you're feeling, as the report says, 'isolated', then you probably spend hours fantasising about what it's like to have a soulmate, someone to love, or someone to love you - especially if those feelings are lacking from the parent base. It's supposed to be an age when you begin tentatively exploring such feelings. But if you're described as a loner (presumably feeling an outsider, or unworthy, or something like this) you don't have a group of friends with whom to discuss these issues. And, presumably, there wasn't a feeling of the ability to do so at home, either. I have no idea, but perhaps Hamer's Mum had switched off emotionally after the death of his sibling?
Hamer has committed a dreadful act, there's no doubt. However, a teenage boy killing a peer is not a lot different to the thousands of teenaged boys who kill THEMSELVES every year (in the civilized, Western world). These kids (and it's usually boys) are striking out at some malady in their lives - even those who've done well at school and are in line for Uni, sports captainships, etc. are not exempt from the roll of suicidal youngsters. They've burst into schools in the USA and shot down their classmates. They've murdered single children from time to time, largely in the heat of the moment. They kill themselves far more often. There is something going on which makes it impossible for them to pursue another day, which is a huge and largely unreported and undiscussed tragedy.
Merlin, you're incapable of even wanting to try to understand any human misfunctioning. Your answer is Neanderthal.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
You read this then ...... I will go along with you only if the guy behaves himself will he serve the term of the given sentence.....But if he starts playing up he wont get out............
This is taken from LIFE SENTENCES GENERALLY ......................
You should have had a tariff set by the Home Secretary following recommendations by the trial judge and the Lord Chief Justice. Providing the tariff period has not already expired, you are entitled to apply to the High Court to have your tariff re-set by a High Court judge. This will be done purely on the judge reading the papers - representations from the prisoner and materials concerning the offence submitted by the Home Office. The tariff cannot be increased over the level previously set. There is some debate as to whether Article 6 should allow for oral hearings to be allowed for this process.
This is taken from LIFE SENTENCES GENERALLY ......................
You should have had a tariff set by the Home Secretary following recommendations by the trial judge and the Lord Chief Justice. Providing the tariff period has not already expired, you are entitled to apply to the High Court to have your tariff re-set by a High Court judge. This will be done purely on the judge reading the papers - representations from the prisoner and materials concerning the offence submitted by the Home Office. The tariff cannot be increased over the level previously set. There is some debate as to whether Article 6 should allow for oral hearings to be allowed for this process.
A
Ardross
Guest
Wrong - the Parole Board must assess at the end of the tariff period whether he is a risk - if he is assessed as a risk he stays in - if not he may be allowed out on licence .
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Desert Orchid
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No-one is condoning the act or defending the boy. It's not a question of looking for excuses. Causes and reasons have nothing to do with excuses.
In a just society, we're trying to work out why and how it happened in order to mete out a punishment appropriate to the crime. The boy was sentenced to life imprisonment. That's hardly a soft option. It should also reassure the victim's parents that the killer has been removed from society for a very long time. It will never bring the kid back but neither will executing his killer.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
how can this be wrong if its taken from a LAW book????????????? on line, go on say its out of date now?
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
No-one is condoning the act or defending the boy. It's not a question of looking for excuses. Causes and reasons have nothing to do with excuses.
In a just society, we're trying to work out why and how it happened in order to mete out a punishment appropriate to the crime. The boy was sentenced to life imprisonment. That's hardly a soft option. It should also reassure the victim's parents that the killer has been removed from society for a very long time. It will never bring the kid back but neither will executing his killer. [/b][/quote]
D-O I wonder if the boys parents were given an option/choice, which option they would take....... but thats pure conjecture on my part and we will ever never know that......
Will time heal the parents wounds or will they bare malice after the 12 yrs is up and he is released?
BrianH
At the Start
Merlin, are you pissed? This is from the Sky News link that you posted:
Do you see the words at least? That means a minimum of twelve years, certainly not a maximum. Which is precisely what everyone else has been trying to explain to you, gently or otherwise.
Merlin, your attitude is not only lacking in any psychological understanding, it's ignorant of history; all of which makes your pronouncements irrational.
In the past, many offences [inc poaching a rabbit or stealing a loaf of bread] were punishable by hanging, let alone killing anyone, whether by intention or accident. The crime rate - including for murder - was nevertheless at least as high as in recent times.
Disturbed children should not be executed, they should be locked away, and treated. I find the demonisation of the Bulger killers in the tabloid press, and their hounding so the mob can find and destroy them, just as repugnant as the original murders. This is still nominally a Christian country, in which the rule of law presupposes the possibility of redemtion. This does NOT imply the condoning of the original violent act.
In the past, many offences [inc poaching a rabbit or stealing a loaf of bread] were punishable by hanging, let alone killing anyone, whether by intention or accident. The crime rate - including for murder - was nevertheless at least as high as in recent times.
Disturbed children should not be executed, they should be locked away, and treated. I find the demonisation of the Bulger killers in the tabloid press, and their hounding so the mob can find and destroy them, just as repugnant as the original murders. This is still nominally a Christian country, in which the rule of law presupposes the possibility of redemtion. This does NOT imply the condoning of the original violent act.
Merlin: you have NO idea about the life I've led, the people I've met, or the situations I've been in, yet you've seen fit to judge your own experiences as far superior. Even if that were true (and I have NO idea about your life, apart from you being overweight, Welsh, proud of your penis, divorced, and once driving long-distance lorries), it's irrelevant to your calling for a 15 y.o. boy to be killed in revenge for murdering another boy.
I don't 'attack' people, although that's always your favourite comeback to me when I disagree strongly with your views - I said your ANSWER was Neanderthal, not you. Of course, if you think I implied that you were Neanderthal, that's your problem. You didn't even read the report correctly before you charged in with yet another of your instant rushes to judgment - you have people correcting you, but instead of saying 'oops' you just barge on trying to justify your error.
Every time there's a headline murder, it seems you have to put the article on here and start bawling for the blood of the murderer. Enough forumites have wondered why you keep doing this, and I can only think it's because you enjoy sensationalism, rather than a reasoned discussion on the subject. You just plonk the article and your judgment down and since you really hate to have anyone disagree with you, why keep doing it?
I don't 'attack' people, although that's always your favourite comeback to me when I disagree strongly with your views - I said your ANSWER was Neanderthal, not you. Of course, if you think I implied that you were Neanderthal, that's your problem. You didn't even read the report correctly before you charged in with yet another of your instant rushes to judgment - you have people correcting you, but instead of saying 'oops' you just barge on trying to justify your error.
Every time there's a headline murder, it seems you have to put the article on here and start bawling for the blood of the murderer. Enough forumites have wondered why you keep doing this, and I can only think it's because you enjoy sensationalism, rather than a reasoned discussion on the subject. You just plonk the article and your judgment down and since you really hate to have anyone disagree with you, why keep doing it?
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