BrianH
At the Start
After Tout Seul's recent posting I just hope that no one smashes Merlin's window in the next few days
15 Year Old Guilty Of Murder
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Phil Waters
Guest
Merlin, get my name off that stupid list. I did not, at anytime, give my opinion on this particular case. I have never suggested that I think the sentence is lenient or indeed harsh.
I did, however, point out your misunderstanding of the "minimum sentence" rule.
So, why is my name on that list? Do you want me to show up at your door with an unnamed accomplice, a machete and a pickaxe handle?
I did, however, point out your misunderstanding of the "minimum sentence" rule.
So, why is my name on that list? Do you want me to show up at your door with an unnamed accomplice, a machete and a pickaxe handle?
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Kathy
Guest
Merlin
How fucking dare you insinuate that as I don't have any children of my own I wouldn't know what these poor people who have lost their child are going through. How fucking dare you. :angy: I don't know how they feel as I have never had a child murdered nor I hope have you. I may not have kids, but I have family strangely enough. How dare you make presumptions about me and my possible feelings just because I couldn't believe you want to execute a minor.
You really are a first class tosser as this thread has proved and I will find it very difficult to ever take any of your postings seriously again.
I have defended you in the past, but from now on, you are definitely on your own.
You have dug a massive hole on this thread and instead of listening to reason you have thrown stupid comments around and the one about those of us that may (or may not have kids) is the last straw as far as I am concerned.
Idiot! h
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Kathy
Guest
To all TH forumites (except Merlin) I apologise for my bad language. :shy:
BrianH
At the Start
I wish you'd stop mincing your words and really say it as you see it
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Phil Waters
Guest
Merlin, another point which I missed, you know virtually nothing about me. You and I have never discussed if I have any children and as I see it being none of your business, that conversation will never take place.
What do you base your earlier statement (that I, amongst others on the list, do not have any children) on?
How can you make a statement like that when you do not actually know the answer?
What do you base your earlier statement (that I, amongst others on the list, do not have any children) on?
How can you make a statement like that when you do not actually know the answer?
Having children or not is irrelevant to the discussion, Merlin
The cutting you yourself posted, demonstrates that the child himself was already a 'victim' - of bullying, and very likely of his own parents. His father had expressed a lack of interest in him, and his mother was no doubt consumed with grief for the death of her other child. This kid was of 'low intelligence' and emotionally disturbed -would he not hve grieved for the death of his brother form cancer?
And yet you want to visit upon him punishment appropriate to a mature person with full control of thier mental and emotional faculties.
As we've all pointed out numerous times, showing some mercy and attempting to understand does NOT condone the violent act, in any way.
The cutting you yourself posted, demonstrates that the child himself was already a 'victim' - of bullying, and very likely of his own parents. His father had expressed a lack of interest in him, and his mother was no doubt consumed with grief for the death of her other child. This kid was of 'low intelligence' and emotionally disturbed -would he not hve grieved for the death of his brother form cancer?
And yet you want to visit upon him punishment appropriate to a mature person with full control of thier mental and emotional faculties.
As we've all pointed out numerous times, showing some mercy and attempting to understand does NOT condone the violent act, in any way.
And, as a mother myself, your so-called logic fails utterly as I would be the first to stand up against the re-introduction of capital punishment.
Incidentally, Merlin, how do you justify your beliefs that being a parent makes you somehow different? Have you thought about the family of anyone whose offpsring are condemned ? Surely they are also victims, so why add to the list?
Kathy - go girl ! :lol:
Incidentally, Merlin, how do you justify your beliefs that being a parent makes you somehow different? Have you thought about the family of anyone whose offpsring are condemned ? Surely they are also victims, so why add to the list?
Kathy - go girl ! :lol:
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Kathy
Guest
B)
I don't lose it very often and lose such foul language Brian (honest!)... but Merlin really has managed to rattle my cage on this one - as you may have noticed.
I have had my fish and chips and a large glass of Pinot to calm me down... yet I still feel the same! :blink:
I am going to watch Chelsea thrash Barcelona now to brighten my evening....
Lee Chater
At the Start
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- Oct 11, 2005
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Has anyone got any notches on their 'warn' bar yet ? 
K
Kathy
Guest
Julie, I was really hoping Merlin would come back with a half attempt to just try and see reason given the common sense spoken by so many on this thread, but no, instead the reason some of us don't agree with his argument for executing minors is because we don't have children so how could we possibly understand. :blink:
That must go down as one of the most stupid comments ever made on this forum... although I am sure Brian could think of a few others that could compare.
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Ardross
Guest
Oh I see that the murderer's qualified psychologist has joined the debate .
Mary Bell has not committed any offences since she was released let alone strangled two other little boys .
There is no evidence that either Thompson or Venables have committed any offences since their release either .
Children who do these things are nearly always very very damaged themselves . It does not justify or excuse their crimes but can explain their aberrant behaviour .
Frankly , your views and those of Merlin are out of the ark .
Mary Bell has not committed any offences since she was released let alone strangled two other little boys .
There is no evidence that either Thompson or Venables have committed any offences since their release either .
Children who do these things are nearly always very very damaged themselves . It does not justify or excuse their crimes but can explain their aberrant behaviour .
Frankly , your views and those of Merlin are out of the ark .
K
Kathy
Guest
Not quite a thrashing but it has helped improve my mood B)Originally posted by Kathy@Oct 18 2006, 06:13 PM
I am going to watch Chelsea thrash Barcelona now to brighten my evening....
dvds2000
Gone But Not Forgotten
Originally posted by Lee Chater@Oct 18 2006, 06:14 PM
Has anyone got any notches on their 'warn' bar yet ?
there will be by the time i've read it all the way through h
I suggest people calm down with the personal insults and such like. Merlin has expressed a view, which many don't agree with, but theres no need to start with name calling etc. It would be pretty boring if everyone agreed with everyone else all the time
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Phil Waters
Guest
I agree Col 
But I don't like my name posted on a list of people who have disagreed with him, when I haven't disagreed or agreed.
Also, I don't like my children being deleted from existence just because Merlin thinks they don't exist.
Oh, they don't, by the way
But I don't like my name posted on a list of people who have disagreed with him, when I haven't disagreed or agreed.
Also, I don't like my children being deleted from existence just because Merlin thinks they don't exist.
Oh, they don't, by the way
Never mind the 'you're not a parent, so you wouldn't understand' thing: we all have one thing in common with the young victim, with Hamer, and other young killers. We've all been kids and we've all been teenagers. Therefore, we're all qualified to speak about whether, following our damaged life and a mad, regretted outburst, we would find it right and just to be put to death as painfully as possible.
For those of us with blissfully happy childhoods, no family strife, no bullying, no feelings of poor self-esteem, no harbourings of anger and resentment towards specific people or a whole type - good for you, I say. But there are thousands of poorly-adjusted kids with very little home support or good mates to help them through lousy times, and those feelings of fury/resentment/rejection are sometimes just too much to bear. And for that, they, and we, had we been in such an unfortunate position, apparently deserve only to be killed in return.
No Christian notions of redemption (and I was reminded by Grey that this IS still a Christian country, which presumably is supposed to uphold such values), no years in which to learn better, no future in which to perhaps develop into a really worthwhile person?
Er... The Pro - can you keep on track? We're not talking about adult paedos. We're talking specifically about a young person killing another young boy. Let's not muddy the water with irrelevancies.
For those of us with blissfully happy childhoods, no family strife, no bullying, no feelings of poor self-esteem, no harbourings of anger and resentment towards specific people or a whole type - good for you, I say. But there are thousands of poorly-adjusted kids with very little home support or good mates to help them through lousy times, and those feelings of fury/resentment/rejection are sometimes just too much to bear. And for that, they, and we, had we been in such an unfortunate position, apparently deserve only to be killed in return.
No Christian notions of redemption (and I was reminded by Grey that this IS still a Christian country, which presumably is supposed to uphold such values), no years in which to learn better, no future in which to perhaps develop into a really worthwhile person?
Er... The Pro - can you keep on track? We're not talking about adult paedos. We're talking specifically about a young person killing another young boy. Let's not muddy the water with irrelevancies.
dvds2000
Gone But Not Forgotten
[/b][/quote]
A life sentence isn't 10 years, it is actually life, just not (usually) the whole lot spent behind bars.
The judge will set a tariff, in this case 12 years. That means he will spend at least 12 years in custody. He is almost certainly guaranteed to spend at least a few months longer in custody. The rules are slightly different for people given life before they are 21, but in the case of the person being an adult when sentenced, when the 12 years is up, the parole board will hear the submissions, then make a decision. In almost all cases it will be declined. The prisoner will then (depending on the recomendations of the parole board) be moved to an open prison to see how he adjusts to a more relaxed regime, and the possiblilty of home visits, days out to the town, outside work etc.
2 years after the first decision he will be up again in front of the board, sometime over the next year (usually somethime between the 11th and 12th month) the prisoner will learn of the decision. If it is to allow parole then he will be released the next day. If not he has to go through the whole process again.
The chances of this guy being out in 12 years are remote, assuming he keeps his nose clean, I would say 14 years. He is still on licence for the rest of his life though, and can be recalled for doing something me or you wouldn't think twice about!
Slightly off topic, but I think the whole process of release for lifers is wrong. It puts tremendous pressure and stress on them and their families. Regardless of what I think about them being released, if they are to be released it should be in a way where they don't leave jail feeling angry or let down by the system.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I`m shocked at the amount of swearing on this thread. What is the forum coming to when Brian and even Kathy are effing and jeffing?
I also read at least half a dozen of Merlin`s posts that didn`t contain any
, or even :brows:
I also read at least half a dozen of Merlin`s posts that didn`t contain any
, or even :brows:
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Ardross
Guest
:lol: :lol:
And your views will have a paedophile living next door to me watching my daughter go to school. [/b][/quote]
It might be thought that views of your ilk are what lead to paediatricians being attacked .
Bar the Bull
At the Start
But Julie,
If they haven't rehabilitated, they wouldn't be released. Anybody who shows no remorse and no desire to change should be imprisoned for life. But we can't judge how they will be in the future on sentencing day.
And "naive" is one of the nicest things that I have been called on the forum this week.... :lol:
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