15 Year Old Guilty Of Murder

[PDJ]

Merlin, disruptive kids don't get expelled. Abusive, violent and uncontrollable pupils do. Dealing with disruptive kids is part of being a teacher. If we brought to the attention of the Principal every child who disrupts a lesson, he would never get anything done.

 

[Sara]

Originally posted by BrianH@Oct 17 2006, 02:44 PM
It's interesting that you consider homosexuality to be a form of mental disturbance

I don't, and I'm sorry if it came across like that; I've always had a number of close friends who are 'gay' ... not that on re-reading what I wrote, I would construe it that way myself! - but then I know what I meant... [I'm in bed with a fever so maybe should not be trying to express myself on contentious issues]

I was trying to make the point that the boy's behaviour was obviously disturbed, as regards the incident which led up to the killing; and somehow the sexual context, given their ages, makes it even more so.

It's a sad fact that boys of 14 suffering from their attempts to come to terms with their recently-realised "abnormal" [ie out-of-the-mainstream] sexuality ARE often disturbed, esp given the usual bullying environment of schools etc these days, and there is little support for them either at home or at school. It's also a sad fact that when a sibling dies, the remaining child or children usually feel emotionally neglected, and may seek inappropriate succour elsewhere, as in this case. In his turmoil the boy clearly found the rejection of his advances insupportable, and lost control. It's a very disturbed thing to do, to attack a child in a wheelchair, surely? - and disturbed behaviour to approach another [much younger] child in this context anyway, or so it seems to me.

The boy may have appeared to be 'normal' to his teachers prior to this, but how would they have any idea what was going on in his mind?

 

[Merlin the Magician]

Originally posted by BrianH@Oct 17 2006, 07:37 PM
Those who consider that homosexuality is some sort of mental illness might like to know that all mainstream psychologists and psychiatrists disagree with them.

Give us a kiss Brian and I'll let you know my feelings............ :lol: I'M not being drawn into that debate thanks..............

I have a nephew who's a CONSULTANT NEUROLOGIST though, but I have never spoken to him with regards this subject as I am HETEROSEXUAL myself and love ladies....

 

[Lee Chater]

There are hundreds and possibly thousands of mentally ill people who are walking the streets who are ticking time bombs.
I am not sure of the facts but didn't Maggie T have something to do with the welfare of the mentally ill being cast aside ?

My step son is a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic caused by drug abuse, he is 23 and has no prospects and relies on medication to stabilise his condition.
The problem is that he cannot accept he is ill so cannot see why he has to take medication !!
There are many like him walking the streets and who appear normal but no one but them know what is in their minds.

 

[PDJ]

Headstrong, what is the difference between being gay and being "gay?"

 

[BrianH]

Originally posted by Lee Chater@Oct 17 2006, 07:53 PM
I am not sure of the facts but didn't Maggie T have something to do with the welfare of the mentally ill being cast aside ?

Yes - "Care In The Community", sold as a modernising compassionate move, actually an excuse to save money by closing down all the mental hospitals.

 

[Merlin the Magician]

And LEE we are all very aware of their carers being killed in trying to do their jobs there is a catalogue of cases where by this has happened unfortunately....

It was stated only last week on the debate with regards the prison over crowding that a large percentage of prisoners are locked up in the wrong place and should be in secure mental hospitals instead.. And yes MAGGIE had them all shut and sold off the grounds for houses to be built on them..........

 

[The Pro]

This forum screams of Human Rights activists.

 

[Sara]

Originally posted by PDJ@Oct 17 2006, 06:55 PM
Headstrong, what is the difference between being gay and being "gay?"

None. I just hate the word! - so find myself distancing myself from it with inverted commas...

I dislike the fact that a valuable English word much used in old poesy and song etc has had its meaning stolen. And I dislike the implication that other words for homosexuals should be seen as derogatory. But then I've been a member of the Colony Room Club for 35 years!

 

[Merlin the Magician]

READ THIS ITS A MORE IN DEPTH RESULT OF THE CASE...........

 

[Ardross]

Hamer had no previous convictions or history of violence but his intellect was low to average and he was immature for his age, Mr Steer said.

He lived with his mother and had never lived with his father who had only "infrequent and intermittent" contact with his son.

He became upset after once inadvertently hearing his father telling his mother he had no feelings for the boy.

He said Hamer felt "unloved, denigrated and humiliated".Hamer had been bullied at both primary and secondary school, suffering verbal abuse, violence, a form of extortion and social exclusion from other children.

Mr Steer said: "A picture emerges of a sensitive child with low self-esteem, unable to express himself, emotionally immature and socially isolated."

So hang him ?

 

[Desert Orchid]

Not necessarily.

Hang, draw and quarter him, or maybe disembowelment (with no anaesthetic, natch) or maybe the firing squad or how about a lethal injection or even stone him to death? Hey, let's go the whole hog and strap his legs to two bent palm trees and release them in opposite directions. Then send the rabid dogs to savage the remains. Let's rip the bastard to shreds. It's no more than he deserves, is it?

 

[krizon]

At least, The Pro, it's only the forum that may scream of human rights activists, rather than the real screams of those whose rights were denied down the years (Chile, Brazil, South Africa, Iran, Lebanon, Congo, Somalia, Zimbabwe, what are now the Czech and Slovak republics... ) - or do you prefer we abandon a human's right to humane treatment and just hang people on hooks until they confess to crap they've never done, or just bleed to death?

 

[Merlin the Magician]

I don't really know, if this is really a point to be made regards this thread but of the people who have spoken against what I deemed as a fitting punishment (an eye for a eye) which was archaic!!! NEANDERTHAL As I was told. The people that posted their so called objections are actually non parent people/adults with any of their own children, and they made the loudest noises on this thread and protected the aggressor...

PDJ
ARDROSS
JON
BAR
KATHY
PHIL
I don't know about MEL or HEADSTRONG ?? its not a knock, but maybe they see it from a different prospective if they had, had their own children............

If they had children of their own, they may then realise the heartache that this family have to go through and they could then take it on board if as a parent they would then be more considerate! If they could relate this to one of their own children being the victim and see how they then felt (the family are struggling to come to terms with the loss and the said sentence) which is understandable...

P.S yes I am very aware that Jules and Brian & D-O have children the same as I have…..

PPS if you read the last report I posted from the LANCASHIRE POST (the local rag for the area) you will see the officer in charge has complained as to the sentence being inappropriate and lenient and should have been a longer sentence, so one never knows it may yet end up in the high court with the prosecution CPS looking for a sentence that reflects the severity of the killing/murder?…..

 

[Melendez]

Merlin,

You don't have many takers for your suggestion to execute minors regardless of their social environment. If a 15 year old killed my child, I might well be of a mind to carry out my own execution. It would not make it right and I would expect to serve time for it.

 

[Bar the Bull]

Merlin, read Ardross's post.

I never protected the aggressor. I just pointed out how ludicrous it is to suggest sentencing a minor to death because he "looks mature"

 

[Harbinger]

Does having children make you more susceptible to extreme right wing views? Where's that vasectomy thread gone...

 

[Ardross]

The chances of this sentence being regarded as unduly lenient are very low.

 

[Merlin the Magician]

Originally posted by Bar the Bull@Oct 18 2006, 11:21 AM
Merlin, read Ardross's post.

I never protected the aggressor. I just pointed out how ludicrous it is to suggest sentencing a minor to death because he "looks mature"

BAR don't misconstrue the debate mate, my opening saga had nothing to do with the guy looking mature that was added in the context that a few on here were voicing their opinions and defending any action against a murderer (I.E. an eye for an eye or the meagre prison sentence that was passed which I was trying to highlight)

If you are not already very aware that! Regardless, some people do differ in statue and idiosyncrasies - mannerisms if you’re the same age I was pointing out that this guy in particular looked mature for his age, not mature enough to hang or die either, full stop.

If you want to debate anything..well please don’t misconstrue and add things that were never added until later in the debate which I have highlighted here...ta

I am also very well aware that some?? On here don’t agree with hanging! (I certainly would have him hanged when he was of age 18... maybe I missed this point and my inclusions, and it may have been more acceptable to a few on here) for doing such a thing as this guy had carried out. Well that’s their opinion I have not slagged them off because they have this/that opinion.

We would debate nothing on here if certain/different people never had an input to any given thread that comes up daily on this site, and they add their OWN opinions. but what really gets to me is people making accusations with regards MY opinions I don't slag them off because they have an opinion I may disagree with it but surely that's why we are here on this forum. ……

 

[Harbinger]

I certainly would have him hanged

Would you want to watch?

 

[Merlin the Magician]

I am a realist not a sadist just for your information.................

 

[Songsheet]

Originally posted by Merlin the Magician@Oct 18 2006, 01:05 PM
[ (I certainly would have him hanged when he was of age 18... maybe I missed this point and my inclusions, and it may have been more acceptable to a few on here)

OOOhhhh, right...... Got it now, Merlin.

So you think it perfectly acceptable not only to issue a death sentence on a 15yo but to make him wait three years before it can be carried out?

And you think he's psychotic? :blink:

 

[Desert Orchid]

Merlin, as a matter of curiosity, what is it about 'an eye for an eye' that constitutes justice?

What you're saying is that if I come along and smash one of your windows, it is appropriate for you to come and smash one of mine? Is that justice or vengeance?

Wouldn't it be more just for me to pay for the replacement of the window and the tidying up inside and maybe something else as a punishment?

Suppose the reason I'd smashed your window was because I'd felt hurt by something you'd said (without intending to) and wanted to get back at you, but let's suppose also you weren't aware it was me? What would you do?

a) Sit up all night every night thereafter waiting for the culprit to come back so that you can punch his/her (ie my) lights out? (Not realising that I'd never be back for that very reason?)(But your window's still f*cked.)

b ) Call the police? (But there's no evidence to tie me to act so the police can do f*ck all and your window is still f*cked.)

c) Pray to God for forgiveness for me? (But your window's still f*cked.)

d) Come on to the forum and share your unfortunate predicament with sympathetic listeners? (But your window's still f*cked.)

e) Emigrate? (Please?)(Pretty please?)( ) (But you're leaving a f*cked window behind.)

f) Something else? (Like unf*ck your window?)

(This post is genuinely not intended to offend - you've pricked my curiosity about what justice is all about.)

 

[Harbinger]

I am a realist not a sadist just for your information.................

If you were a realist you would understand the complete futility of killing him.

 

[cricketfan]

Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Oct 18 2006, 01:53 PM
e) Emigrate? (Please?)(Pretty please?)( ) (But you're leaving a f*cked window behind.)

To England ?