That feels like a good price without overthinking it.
2 Mile Chasers 20/21
- Thread starter granger
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That feels like a good price without overthinking it.
granger
Senior Jockey
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Imagine if he'd had Denman after the great horse's heart scare. No way on earth he'd have gone for a second Hennessy.
Tanlic
Banned member
Pity about Altior but hard to blame Nicky....He ran Sprinter Sacre in December in Heavyish ground in his first of the season in The Desert Orchid and we all know what happened there.
That possibly influenced his decision here. Hard to knock him when he has one of the best records of all time in top class races is it not?
Sill looks like it could be a good race with Politlogue and Rouge Vif likely to blaze the trail which may not suit the keen Greenateen
He is unlikely to lead with Rouge Vif in the field but he may want to and if they go a stride to fast for him and he doesn't settle he may up running on a similar race to the one he did in the Johnny Henderson...should be interesting
That possibly influenced his decision here. Hard to knock him when he has one of the best records of all time in top class races is it not?
Sill looks like it could be a good race with Politlogue and Rouge Vif likely to blaze the trail which may not suit the keen Greenateen
He is unlikely to lead with Rouge Vif in the field but he may want to and if they go a stride to fast for him and he doesn't settle he may up running on a similar race to the one he did in the Johnny Henderson...should be interesting
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tiggers1972
Senior Jockey
Got to be a question mark about the Hendo stable form too looking at the early results.
jinnyj
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God there’s some bollox talked about on here about Hendo pulling out Altior. He’s the berludy trainer FFS. If he doesn’t know his horse better than anyone else, then he wouldn’t have been champion trainer so many times. I would have done the same. The ground has got soft enough for him to consider the horses well being. Why pull the guts out of the horse and ruin it for the rest of the season? His target is the QE2. That’s the owners wishes as well. And it’s Hendos job to get him there in the best possible condition. Yes it’s disappointing for punters/racegoers but they aren’t the priority.
I have taken horses to the races having rung up the Clerk of the Course to find out the state of the ground only to get there and pull the horse out as he was a lying bar Steward!
I have taken horses to the races having rung up the Clerk of the Course to find out the state of the ground only to get there and pull the horse out as he was a lying bar Steward!
Gaz's Way De Solzen
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Tell you what, Allmankind comes across as a bit of a nutter, but my word he can jump and he has got some engine.
Reminds me of a young Un Des Sceaux.
Reminds me of a young Un Des Sceaux.
Desert Orchid
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I didn't have a bet in the race but yesterday I wrote elsewhere:
It seems Nicholls really likes Hitman and we know Ga Law is smart so that was pretty impressive from the winner.
It seems Nicholls really likes Hitman and we know Ga Law is smart so that was pretty impressive from the winner.
granger
Senior Jockey
Nicky baulked at it
Desert Orchid
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Got that bit right but really disappointed with BUAS. Ridden seemingly to pick up place scraps he never looked like doing that either. Wonder where they'll go with him now.
They didn’t apply a R4 despite me backing it after the 48 hour decs. Altior was 4/9 in that market so should have been 65% :blink:
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It was all there on his Carlisle run. Horse is gone.
Desert Orchid
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I disagree about the Carlisle run. Stalked Imperial Aura most of the way and eased off from the home turn.
They'll probably need to go down the handicap route with him now but I will be wary about him at least until the stable's runners are faring better.
frontrunner
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I know we are all armchair experts but when a trainer pulls a horse 24 hrs before a race using the ground as the reason even though ground conditions are better than what is described it is puzzling to say the least. Surely if there was any doubt about the ground the trainer could walk the track in the morning and then make the call. Its all the more frustrating when you see a novice break 4 mins for the course and distance indicating the ground must be nearer goo/soft than soft.
Tanlic
Banned member
Result as expected and can't be sure Altior would have won as PN's horse looked 110% fit and never looked like stopping.
Tanlic
Banned member
I agree with Jinny on Hendo as I said in an earlier post Nicky knows best.
What you have to consider and understand its not as simple as good,g/s, soft, yielding , heavy etc.
When ground takes more rain it is usually less taxing to a horse but when it starts drying out that is a completely different ball game. It becomes like a glue pot even is its G/S heading to good it can be very holding.
Nico and Nicky will know a lot more about the actual conditions than us and we are in no position to complain sitting at home as you say.
Rouge Vif takes some keeping up with and loves to be in front but he struggled to pass PN's horse and was always that stride out of his comfort zone because of that ground
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He came with a run up the straight and completely cut out. Has serious questions to answer. Possible the stable had a problem at the time but he is no plot.
frontrunner
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jinnyj
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Ground is far more complex than you realise. Hendos comments about a little bit of rain opening up the ground were spot on. Just because he has won on a similar ground doesn’t make it the same. Heavy at Chepstow for example is different to heavy at Cheltenham or Newbury. All have different soil makeup so the effect varies.
And some horses lose confidence in Jumping if the ground conditions aren’t right.
And some horses lose confidence in Jumping if the ground conditions aren’t right.
frontrunner
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Jinny I know you know more about ground and how horses cope with it than I will ever know. What I do know from having a very few runners at Sandown is the two tracks ride very different. The hurdle course is horrendous when there is a lot of rain , I remember walking across it and nearly losing a boot. However IMO the ground on the chase course today was nearly perfect winter ground. The fact that Harry Whittingham walked the course this morning and ran Rouge Vif along with the times being just outside standard back that up. For me the word reached 7 barrows that Nichols had his pair cherry ripe and Henderson sided stepped the battle. All this looking after the horse when not so long ago the said trainer was injecting illegal substances into them makes me laugh.
G-G
Senior Jockey
**** all wrong with the ground
It's nowhere near as bad as it was a couple of years ago when he beat UDS
It's all a load of bollocks isn't it
Altior is two years older and has had 'issues'. Maybe the thinking is they only have one more shot at the QM and that's what/where they want him to bow out.
I personally would kill my trainer if he ran my horse on bad ground with the slightest doubt about his well being at whatever stage of his career he is.
Jinnyj is right: Hendo knows him best, maybe ground and another even slight doubt as to fitness or whatever, made the decision for him. The owners don't need the money or the glory. If he had run him and he had lost, after the reports of the ground yesterday, everybody would be shouting he should have pulled him.