2 Mile Chasers 21/22

Good News what have they got to lose? Best result would be a win by less than 2 lenths all out then the rematch in the QMCC will be even more interesting
 
Not a drop of rain due and bright skies and sunshine. Ill be froffing if the ground scuppers this.
 
also everyone should be considering the 30/1 on a shishkin queen mum/energumene ryanair double. id be even more strong on it if allaho wasn't there to defend the crown for mullins.
 
Fair play to Hendo....credit where it's due. Perhaps he now appreciates how much the NH racing fan wants to see the top horses take each other on.
 
JamesRB said:
also everyone should be considering the 30/1 on a shishkin queen mum/energumene ryanair double. id be even more strong on it if allaho wasn't there to defend the crown for mullins.
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Got to be honest, I don't think it's at all clear-cut who will win on Saturday.

I strongly suspect Energumene isn't going to be brushed aside as easily as everything else Shishkin has faced so far over fences, and I'd be surprised if their SPs weren't much closer than their respective ante-post prices.
 
Maybe he was just a bit rusty but Shishkin seemed to lose the plot just before the home turn at Kempton

Eventually he got going and was pushed out to win but he wouldn't want to be giving Energumene that kind of start
with 3 to jump or he'll find it really tough to peg him back

I certainly don't think he's as good as Altior was in his prime so I can see it going either way.

I am waiting for a very healthy amount back for a double I have with Bob Olinger I placed the other day but can't say I am as confident as I was,
 
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Grasshopper said:
Got to be honest, I don't think it's at all clear-cut who will win on Saturday.

I strongly suspect Energumene isn't going to be brushed aside as easily as everything else Shishkin has faced so far over fences, and I'd be surprised if their SPs weren't much closer than their respective ante-post prices.
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Yes. I was quite taken aback when I saw 3/1 Energumene the other day. Even now I think 15/8 might be generous.

I'm a huge Shishkin fan, have always had big ratings for him and want him to win but I've also had big ratings for Energumene to date and I think 5/6 & 11/10 should be closer to their true chances.
 
Grasshopper said:
Got to be honest, I don't think it's at all clear-cut who will win on Saturday.

I strongly suspect Energumene isn't going to be brushed aside as easily as everything else Shishkin has faced so far over fences, and I'd be surprised if their SPs weren't much closer than their respective ante-post prices.
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Could not agree more. Ladbrokes are 15/8 Emergumene. That's a bet.
 
i think if this was the showdown at cheltenham with them both having prep runs that went as expected i'd be seriously in shishkin's camp and something near evens would be snapped up.

ascot in january, you'd imagine hendo hasn't got him at concert pitch just yet with the way he operates, he's the man for getting them spot on at cheltenham but beforehand.........
 
Energumene's bettting history is interesting.

He was 5/1 joint 2nd fav with Chacun Pour Soi back in Decemeber until he won a nothing race in comaparison to Shishkins and Chacun Pour Soi then badly disapponted,

The bookies as they do got the big knives out and slashed his price to 7/2 then without anything ado 2/1.

The bookies are being far from generous IMO at 15/8. Shishkin is the form horse by a mile and should be 2/5.

That's not to say he's a certainty when the button is pushed but on paper he is.
 
Can't believe either will be 100% this far from the big one; really depends on who wants it the most; that would be NH, imo.
 
Tanlic said:
Energumene's bettting history is interesting.

He was 5/1 joint 2nd fav with Chacun Pour Soi back in Decemeber until he won a nothing race in comaparison to Shishkins and Chacun Pour Soi then badly disapponted,

The bookies as they do got the big knives out and slashed his price to 7/2 then without anything ado 2/1.

The bookies are being far from generous IMO at 15/8. Shishkin is the form horse by a mile and should be 2/5.

That's not to say he's a certainty when the button is pushed but on paper he is.
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What price would you make Energumene, if you'd go 2/5 Shishkin, Tanlic?

Also, is it that conclusive that Shishkin is "the form horse by a mile"?

The official handicapper has a mere 1lb between them, and the only scrap of collateral form available (via Captain Guiness), doesn't put much daylight between the pair either.
 
Tanlic said:
Energumene's bettting history is interesting.

He was 5/1 joint 2nd fav with Chacun Pour Soi back in Decemeber until he won a nothing race in comaparison to Shishkins and Chacun Pour Soi then badly disapponted,
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Again you are using ancient prices before new information had come into the marketto to make an argument. CPS disgraced itself in the Tingle Creek and Energumene broke good horses in the Hilly Way on bottomless ground, not touching a twig in the process.

This time last year we were looking at 10/11 5/2 in the Arkle if you want to make a relevant comparison.
 
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I was comparing the Hilly Way to The Desert Orchid form. Hilly Way beat nothing but they slashed his QMCC odds wheras Shishkin destryoyed the Tingle Creek winner which is by far the better form

These current ratings will prove to be rubbish to be frank and I really don't want to go there

Captain Guiness is an ordianry animal and hardly a yardstick to be using to compare them or to be setting ratings by.

If either of them were 110% fit he'd be beaten by a county,
 
Slim said:
Again you are using ancient prices before new information had come into the marketto to make an argument. CPS disgraced itself in the Tingle Creek and Energumene broke good horses in the Hilly Way on bottomless ground, not touching a twig in the process.

This time last year we were looking at 10/11 5/2 in the Arkle if you want to make a relevant comparison.
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I am purely reminded people the horse is a substitute 2nd favourite and he wouldn't be if Chacun had pissed up in the Tingle Creek.

As for the good horses Energumene beat the only decent animal in the race Notebook finsihed last and was lame.
 
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Tanlic said:
I am purely reminded people the horse is a substitute 2nd favourite and he wouldn't be if Chacun had pissed up in the Tingle Creek.

As for the good horses Energumene beat the only decent animal in the race Notebook finsihed last and was lame.
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That's your opinion. I had Energumene ahead of CPS as a novice. CPS has a hole in him.
 
Tanlic said:
I was comparing the Hilly Way to The Desert Orchid form. Hilly Way beat nothing but they slashed his QMCC odds wheras Shishkin destryoyed the Tingle Creek winner which is by far the better form

These current ratings will prove to be rubbish to be frank and I really don't want to go there

Captain Guiness is an ordianry animal and hardly a yardstick to be using to compare them or to be setting ratings by.

If either of them were 110% fit he'd be beaten by a county,
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Worth noting that the "ordinary animal" Captain Guiness was only beaten 5.75L by Greaneteen in the Tingle Creek, who Shishkin beat 10L at Kempton (in receipt of 3lbs). This admittedly-imperfect line of form would throw Shishkin out around 13lbs ahead of Captain Guiness, which - by coincidence - is how far he beat him in the Arkle too.

Now, I've no doubt that Shishkin is actually a good bit more than 13lbs superior to Captain Guiness. It's the suggestion that the Desert Orchid was the smoking-hot form you claim it to be, that I'm taking issue with.

Clearly it's high-class, but is it demonstrably-better form than that displayed by Energumene in Cork, who gave 8lbs and upwards of an 8L beating to three horses rated in the high-150's without coming off the bit?

Not for me.
 
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