2 Year olds 2009

CC has only had 1 more run the the two AOB horses.

The Hannon team have a pretty good line through Dick Turpin who they reckon CC is far superior to, not even a contest according to them.

I'm not a huge fan of CC, but I can't understand how you can easily dismiss his defeat but so easily make so excuses for the Ballydoyle pair.

For me, this is the worst bunch of two year olds in some time.

Watching the Dewhurst yesterday, I thought Chabal looked like a greyhound, and just an impressive horse to look at in general - anyone else think the same, and I think Bolger has pulled a fast one. :)
 
Hamm said:
CC has only had 1 more run the the two AOB horses.

The Hannon team have a pretty good line through Dick Turpin who they reckon CC is far superior to, not even a contest according to them.

I'm not a huge fan of CC, but I can't understand how you can easily dismiss his defeat but so easily make so excuses for the Ballydoyle pair.

For me, this is the worst bunch of two year olds in some time.

Watching the Dewhurst yesterday, I thought Chabal looked like a greyhound, and just an impressive horse to look at in general - anyone else think the same, and I think Bolger has pulled a fast one. :)
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I am not making excuses for the Ballydoyle colts - they were beaten on merit yesterday on the day. But the scope for progress for the future is pretty clear.

I do not see how the same can be said for Canford Cliffs, who is bred to be a two year old, will struggle to get a mile and has presumably had some sort of problem that has ruled him out for the rest of the season. I see absolutely no reason why he should reverse form with Arcano who is bred to improve for a step up in trip (and races like it) and Hughes opinion that he was not right in the Morny does not sit well with me considering the level of form he had. He had no excuse in France. It does not matter that CC only has one more run than that the Ballydoyle pair - he is a completely different type to them.
 
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I think Steinbeck is the stand out bet for the 2000 Guineas, he is surely now going to be aimed at the race, seems well regarded at the yard and was massively disadvantaged by running down the stands rail. It was a very Rip Van Winkle style run, 16/1 is absolutely massive in my eyes.

That said, I think Arcano is a brilliant horse and providing this setback doesn't leave it's mark and he trains on, he'll be tough to beat come May.
 
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Last years Dewhurst got a hammering but there's a couple of decent animals came out of that. I'm always loathe to knock any G1 2yo form too much because there are always G1 performers in the field even if they don't finish first.

That said, I agree that this looks potentially stronger on paper and there are some likeable types in it. I was really impressed by Jan Vermeer and if they bounce him out and let him stride on he could be difficult to peg back. Should be an interesting market as well.
 
While SNA looks the obvious one from Ballydoyle, both Jan Vermeer and Midas Touch were really impressive in their maidens and could be anything.
 
As an aside, with more and more Montjeu's and Galileo coming on stream - there is every chance the RP Trophy will improve with quality in terms of strength in depth over the coming years.
 
Do we take it Al Zir is not a Guineas horse then if they are aiming him at this rather than tha Dewhurst or Longchamp a couple of weeks back?
 
Think in general any horse winning a group 1 over a mile as a two year old would have a good shot at winning the guineas as a three year old. Too many trainers over complicate things by deciding to bypass what would be a good opportunity for a group 1 winning horse over a mile to win a classic over a trip a horse is already proven at. Look at Crowded House last year, im not saying he would have won the guineas as the monster was in there but he would have had a massive chance. Instead the whole season has gone wrong possibly aiming the horse at the wrong races.
 
Crowded House didn't exactly set the world alight in his two runs this year in the Dante and the Derby, so why would he have had a massive chance in the Guineas with horses [later proven very effective over a mile with the notable exception of STS who, let's face it, would have beaten any of them again over a mile] of the calibre of Sea The Stars, Rip Van Winkle, Mastercraftsman and Detonator in the field, especially given that his breeding strongly suggests he will want further than a mile?
 
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You're answering your own question his 2 runs over a further distance didnt produce any significant result. His best performances were over 7f and 1m. I'm not suggesting he would have won the guineas but what im saying is that if a horse wins the RP trophy why does it necessarily mean it isn't a guineas horse for next year. Just think trainers over complicate things and try and push horses into distances and ignore the obvious.
 
It's funny how these trends go, beardo - the Guineas is starting to look like a great Derby trial again.
 
How many horses has O'Brien bought from the Beresford as good Derby prospects to get beaten in the RP Trophy in recent times? Masterofthehorse, Eagle Mountain, Septimus and Albert Hall. You have to go back to Brian Boru for the last O'Brien RP Trophy winner which is rather poor considering the Sadler's Wells, Galileos and Montjeus he's had through his hands over the last 5 seasons.

Sir Nicholas Abbey is the proverbial could be anything, but his Beresford form doesn't stack up at all at present with 10l covering the whole field.

Compare that with the strength of Elusive Pimpernel's York form, where he had a listed winner and dual Group placed Vale of York behind him, a listed winner in Emerald Commander, and a Champagne winner in Poet's Voice. Dunlop was interviewed in the RP on Sunday and made reference to his action which suggests softer ground may suit him even better, his half-brother Palavicini certainly handles cut. Add in that it's impossible to see him not being better at 1m than 7f, and he looks a pretty fair bit at 9/2.
 
I would say SNA has looked alot classier than Septimus, Albert Hall and Masterofthehorse all of whom struggled to win the Beresford or in the case of MOTH lost it.

I like the Dunlop horse as well - alot in fact. But I think his form ties in with the same bunch of horses and Coolmore will have a good line on him via the Champagne Stakes form.
 
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