2016 Gold Cuppin

:lol:

but if they were coming to the last fence neck and neck who would you prefer on board then ? ;).

I've clearly been listening to too many podcasts but akin to my sudden liking for TNO in the Champion Hurdle (still think Annie will win though) I'm beginning to see all the negatives about the main challengers - other than Cue Card. Tizzard's enthusiasm in today's RP was certainly infectious.

If you'd have told me 6 months ago that I'd be doing a The New One - Cue Card double for March I'd have thought you meant at Sedgefield.
 
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Grasshopper said:
The only thing that "went wrong" with DC at Kempton was he fell - there were no other excuses. And Cue Card is self-evidently a completely different animal now, to the one routed at Aintree last season.

Track form has to be a minor concern with Don Cossack too, considering how well it suits some of the other principals. DC and Djak the only pair at head of the market with no winnig form there - has to count for something, relative to the others.
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Ok go back a step and watch again only this time take your eyes off Vautour for a few seconds.

You might notice Brian Cooper was going along merrily in 4th place one minute and the next he was shuffled back to 6th or 7th when Paddy Brennan loses control of his steering and Cue Card who was travelling on his outside decides to go sharply right and ends up on the inside rail.

It doesn't look much because Brian Cooper doesn't panic and eases back on Don Cossack but without a doubt it cost him valuable ground at a crucial time.


A trouble free run and he would have won by 2 or 3 lengths imo..I reckon he's knocking bet and the best horse in the race
 
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wilsonl said:
:lol:

but if they were coming to the last fence neck and neck who would you prefer on board then ? ;).

I've clearly been listening to too many podcasts but akin to my sudden liking for TNO in the Champion Hurdle (still think Annie will win though) I'm beginning to see all the negatives about the main challengers - other than Cue Card. Tizzard's enthusiasm in today's RP was certainly infectious.

If you'd have told me 6 months ago that I'd be doing a The New One - Cue Card double for March I'd have thought you meant at Sedgefield.
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The New One misses Sedgefield Wilson he's going to Hawick mair for the common Riding
 
Not as Bullish as Colin Tizzard who reckons Cue Card is going to put up a 190 rated performance so he should be winning the Gold Cup by about 15 lengths.:blink:

Rest will be as well staying at home
 
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So what are the chances WPM runs at least three in the wrong race ?
Annie Power in Champion
Vroom Vroom in Mares Hurdle
Vautour in Gold Cup

There could be very interesting "What might have beens ?.... from March 18 onwards methinks.

My "bad eye " is not looking for Ruby to fall any more; his quota for the season is well used up by now surely.

Wishing him and WPM all the very best.
 
Tanlic said:
Ok go back a step and watch again only this time take your eyes off Vautour for a few seconds.

You might notice Brian Cooper was going along merrily in 4th place one minute and the next he was shuffled back to 6th or 7th when Paddy Brennan loses control of his steering and Cue Card who was travelling on his outside decides to go sharply right and ends up on the inside rail.

It doesn't look much because Brian Cooper doesn't panic and eases back on Don Cossack but without a doubt it cost him valuable ground at a crucial time.


A trouble free run and he would have won by 2 or 3 lengths imo..I reckon he's knocking bet and the best horse in the race
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Yer rear-end. :)

DC didn't meet any trouble in-running - he came off the bridle a mile out, and stayed-off it until he tipped-up two-out. Granted, he was staying-on, and might well have won (impossible to say), but there were no hard-luck stories whatsoever.
 
edgt said:
So what are the chances WPM runs at least three in the wrong race ?
Annie Power in Champion
Vroom Vroom in Mares Hurdle
Vautour in Gold Cup

There could be very interesting "What might have beens ?.... from March 18 onwards methinks.

My "bad eye " is not looking for Ruby to fall any more; his quota for the season is well used up by now surely.

Wishing him and WPM all the very best.
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I will remind you of this "wrong race" quote about Vautour, shortly after the Gold Cup, Eddie! :cool:
 
edgt said:
So what are the chances WPM runs at least three in the wrong race ?
Annie Power in Champion
Vroom Vroom in Mares Hurdle
Vautour in Gold Cup

There could be very interesting "What might have beens ?.... from March 18 onwards methinks.

My "bad eye " is not looking for Ruby to fall any more; his quota for the season is well used up by now surely.

Wishing him and WPM all the very best.
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Vroom Vroom will deffo run in the Mares.
 
I watched the race this morning. Can't see any excuses for DC. Would have finished maybe three lengths third. At least that's how I'll be rating him.
 
Was that before your morning coffee? Look again at 3min 49 seconds and tell me did Cue Card come across Don Cossack or not? and was he in turn shuffled back in the field.

Grassy says he hit a flat spot which in a sense is correct but there you can see the reason for it Brian Cooper had to switch and slow down to let Cue card in or would have run up his backside.

As for finishing 3 lengths behind he's come there and is jumping past Cue card at the second last and the last time the two got into a tussle despite being under pressure Don Cossack ran away from Cue Card.

Who knows if he had won but go down by 3 lengths when he's the one that's finding for pressure I doubt it. But to each his own.



.
 
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Frankel said:
It's irrelevant now and you have to jump. Yes though, he would have won.
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at the rate the front two were slowing down i think without the fall Don would have had no trouble running faster than V or CC to the line..no doubt in my mind about it...we will never know..so we have to weigh it up on the evidence..the evidence i've got tells me they were sitting ducks at the speed they were finishing...someone else will feel the race was a jog and sprint and the front two were going really fast from 2 out..its all about opinions..each person has to make their own mind up

i've never known a punter ever change their mind once its made up..no matter what argument is put forward..its set in stone a second or twoafter the race finishes.

you could use 3 more pages on here discussing it..and i guarantee..not one opinion would change..it don't work like that

i watch a race..make a stab at what i've seen..i'm no expert at judging pace to the inch like some say they are by eye..i...so i then need to see what actually was invoved in the race make up with hard figures.....once i've done that work i know i have a reasonably informed view of the race that satisfies me.....i'm happy then..and unless i see real evidence to the contrary..i wouldn't change my view either
 
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I'm not seeing any interference anywhere, Tanlic.

EC1, if Vautour and Cue Card were slowing down it was at a much slower rate than Al Ferof. 3 out Vautour was 6 lengths in front of AF, two out it was about 8 lengths, at the last 10 and at the line 13. Cue card fluffed the last and lost momentum yet rallied to nail Vautour. I can't see DC, who struggled to get there two out, getting home from there faster than Cue Card. Despite slowing down - I assume your sectionals are telling you that - he must surely have posted the fastest last sectional of the entire field?

If it was a slow finish with a final sectional of some way below 100%, wouldn't that be cause to mark Cue Card up?
 
I'm starting to think we've all being overlooking the obvious, which is that Cue Card has already won the two most important chases in England this year on merit. The best of the Irish chasers went to Kempton this season rather than stay at home and he narrowly got the better of them. I don't see why he can't do the same in the Gold Cup. He's the highest achieving and least complicated horse in the field and I agree with his trainer that he prefers Cheltenham to Kempton. I'm not overly concerned about the extra distance of the Gold Cup, if anything he found the King George trip a bit sharp and only just got up in time.
 
Tanlic said:
Grassy says he hit a flat spot which in a sense is correct but there you can see the reason for it Brian Cooper had to switch and slow down to let Cue card in or would have run up his backside.
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I didn't say he hit a "flat-spot".

I said he came off the bridle, and never went back on it. A horse who comes out of a "flat-spot" by inference comes back on the bridle - DC never did.
 
EC1 said:
at the rate the front two were slowing down i think without the fall Don would have had no trouble running faster than V or CC to the line..no doubt in my mind about it...we will never know..so we have to weigh it up on the evidence..the evidence i've got tells me they were sitting ducks at the speed they were finishing...someone else will feel the race was a jog and sprint and the front two were going really fast from 2 out..its all about opinions..each person has to make their own mind up

i've never known a punter ever change their mind once its made up..no matter what argument is put forward..its set in stone a second or twoafter the race finishes.

you could use 3 more pages on here discussing it..and i guarantee..not one opinion would change..it don't work like that

i watch a race..make a stab at what i've seen..i'm no expert at judging pace to the inch like some say they are by eye..i...so i then need to see what actually was invoved in the race make up with hard figures.....once i've done that work i know i have a reasonably informed view of the race that satisfies me.....i'm happy then..and unless i see real evidence to the contrary..i wouldn't change my view either
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In agreement about how it would have played out. Is though about opinions and some may see it differently.

You will always have an immediate view after a race. Though clearly makes sense to watch back to draw a firm conclusion. Watching back can alter ones view at times, I certainly have at times.
 
DO..i've put up loads about this about 6 weeks ago..i'm not going through my figures again...i compared passed KG's against this years on similar ground and even slower..if you look back its on this thread or the KG one.

Basically...CC wasn't slowing down through going too hard early..so doesn't get marked up for going slow late.its the opposite.

Like i said..check back..i wasted loads of time posting up the comparisons..not going there again..it won't change anyone's mind and 99% of folk aren't interested in figures anyway..i'll post a link if i can find it
 
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