2021 2000 Guineas

Van Gogh was the best of the ballydoyle horses today in eight.

He's by a breeders cup classic winner in American Pharaoh, so perhaps he'd be one for the breeders cup 2021?

A long way to go this season before then though...
 
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Marb said:
Van Gogh was the best of the ballydoyle horses today in eight.

He's by a breeders cup classic winner in American Pharaoh, so perhaps he'd be an interesting one for the breeders cup 2021?
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That horses won't be left into the States on that run.
 
Yeah your right, Slim.

That said, although I need to watch todays race again, Van Gogh I'd be interested in for future races.

He's 7s for the Derby but maybe they'll go for the Irish 2000. We'll see.

On last seasons form you can understand why he'd come on a lot for today's run.

As he showed his best towards the end of last season.
 
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All analysis of this race needs to go through James Doyle saying One Ruler (6th) wasn't fast enough.
 
Let's put it like this.

If you had to chose one horse right now, (not including the winner), to take out of today's race, especially one who may be overlooked in the betting in future, what would you choose?

Van Gogh has out run his more fancied stablemates who were tailed off.

He will surely come on a ton for the run.

He also could be better with a bit of cut in the going.

Van Gogh for me.
 
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Marb said:
Let's put it like this.

If you had to chose one horse right now, (not including the winner), to take out of today's race, especially one who may be overlooked in the betting in future, what would you choose?

Van Gogh has out run his more fancied stablemates who were tailed off.

He will surely come on a ton for the run.

He also could be better with a bit of cut in the going.

Van Gogh for me.
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Wembley was 'in' the race longer than the Vincent. Stop it two out. Once done Moore looked after Wembley. Track for Battleground.
 
Slim said:
All analysis of this race needs to go through James Doyle saying One Ruler (6th) wasn't fast enough.
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Needs further or softer,as his close 2nd in the heavy ground Futurity indicates (albeit in hindsight).
The race was run in a relatively quick time, but as the first four home raced prominently, there's a hint the ground rode pretty fast,anyway.
 
It was interesting listening to racing uk before the race.they said van Gogh's was carrying condition and Thunder wotsit hadnt grown.

The one that caught my eye was jim crowley's.

I really should write the names down as my memory is short.

Well done Ista with the winner
 
It's quite possible there is not much to take out of this race. Lucky Vega would win a Jersey Stakes if they wanted. The first and second will go to the St James Palace Stakes. The rest need to be forgiven poor runs to be betting material again.
 
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Outsider said:
It was interesting listening to racing uk before the race.they said van Gogh's was carrying condition and Thunder wotsit hadnt grown.

The one that caught my eye was jim crowley's.

I really should write the names down as my memory is short.

Well done Ista with the winner
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Interesting: Van Gogh was one of Ken Pittersons paddock picks along with the winner and he didn’t say anything about it carrying condition. I think Battleground was his the other one he liked.
 
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The way Master of the Seas moved through the field on the outside of the pack was kinda reminiscent of Zafonic (without the end result obv)
 
I've had a look at the sectionals published in the results section of the RTV site.

In the 2000 Guineas only two of the finishers touched the 100% mark for the final 3f split. More experienced sectionalistas can correct me but I think that means it was a very strongly but not over-strongly run race.

By contrast, the first seven in the 1000 Guineas all recorded closing percentages higher than 100% suggesting the pace was fractionally slower than ideal.

I suppose you then have to factor in which horses were a bit keen and how much some might improve for a different trip.

Overall, I think the form in both races is modest enough in the big scheme of things.

From memory, I think the Guineas won by Footstepsinthesand might be the 'worst' I've ever rated (118/119 for the winner) and I wouldn't be surprised if my figures for this one are in the same ball park.

The 1000 Guineas promised less and delivered accordingly. You could argue that the 'right' horses - plus Santa Barbara - were there at the finish but it will be interesting to see what kind of figures the race produces.

I must admit, I thought Santa Barbara ran a smashing trial for the Oaks.
 
“Van Gogh ran well. He’s probably a horse for the Derby – stepping up in trip,” said O’Brien.
 
Colin Phillips said:
I know experience isn't always required to run well in The Derby or The Oaks but on yesterday's evidence she will have to learn quickly.
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I agree, Colin.

There's just something 'different' about AOB in discussing this filly. It might be that the Irish Oaks is what they have in mind for her because forked tongues were seemingly invented in Ballydoyle.

However, the idea of next run the Oaks then put away for the autumn suggests they see her as a Vermeille-then-Arc type.
 
Personally I wish AOB would shut up before a race. It was all Santa Barbara this and SB that, when after the race he says SB is really an Oaks filly, as if the Guineas was just a trial for that race.
Thought the winner was good value but that it was an advantage to be on the far side where the pace, what pace there was, was.
 
Talking of names of horses...

Van Gogh being my favourite artist for various reasons including his customary eccentricity not mention his battle with mental ill health, well everything seems right for a man's bet on him in the next few weeks.

I see Bet 365 are standout 14/1, but seeing how I can't bet with them, I just hope either Hills or Skybet might stick their head above the parapet in the coming weeks and offer the same price.

I've got the upmost respect for Mac Swiney, having read about the him, and the uproar in America 100 years ago, when the British locked him up in Brixton prison, (as an Anglo Irish Brit, I sometimes feel I'd be more accepted in the U.S.A. :)).

Even still, Van Gogh can trump the Mac Swiney and the rest of them at Epsom next month.

What trial will they go for, that's the question.
 
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Eleanora Duse said:
Personally I wish AOB would shut up before a race. It was all Santa Barbara this and SB that, when after the race he says SB is really an Oaks filly, as if the Guineas was just a trial for that race.
Thought the winner was good value but that it was an advantage to be on the far side where the pace, what pace there was, was.
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ITV were all Santa Barbara this and Santa Barbara that: the comments about showing all the horses in the paddock for both races - that's what you're b there for! Don't say it as if you're doing the viewing public a favour :mad:
She, SB, ran much too green, and Newmarket not an ideal course for a horse with that little experience when asking/expecting them to turn up with their A game.
Think the 1000 will prove in the long term to be a much better race in terms of what they go on to do than the runners in the 2000. A couple of them were definitely Derby types far more than milers and I suspect were in there to have a run and prove it.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
I've had a look at the sectionals published in the results section of the RTV site.

In the 2000 Guineas only two of the finishers touched the 100% mark for the final 3f split. More experienced sectionalistas can correct me but I think that means it was a very strongly but not over-strongly run race.

By contrast, the first seven in the 1000 Guineas all recorded closing percentages higher than 100% suggesting the pace was fractionally slower than ideal.

I suppose you then have to factor in which horses were a bit keen and how much some might improve for a different trip.

Overall, I think the form in both races is modest enough in the big scheme of things.

From memory, I think the Guineas won by Footstepsinthesand might be the 'worst' I've ever rated (118/119 for the winner) and I wouldn't be surprised if my figures for this one are in the same ball park.

The 1000 Guineas promised less and delivered accordingly. You could argue that the 'right' horses - plus Santa Barbara - were there at the finish but it will be interesting to see what kind of figures the race produces.

I must admit, I thought Santa Barbara ran a smashing trial for the Oaks.
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Judging races on a "final 3f split" is not the way to judge pace, imo, as it will often misguide as to what really happened in the race proper. It is clear from the replay that Master Of the Seas quickened markedly from 3 out to 2 out (an 11.03 secs furlong, on RUK times) and probably used a fair amount of energy in the process.That he still ran so close is testament to his class, and any gp1 mile races should be his for the taking.
 
Just talking to the brother about what was said by whom before and after the races, he pointed out that when Bolder was asked along the lines of 'if Mac Swiney wins the Derby..' he corrected the interviewer and said "When"..
 
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