EC1
On a break
yeah probably some anorak that puts winner after winner up on here..but is wrong all the time..they make you sick don't they?
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Aintree 2016
- Thread starter Truncheon
- Start date
yeah probably some anorak that puts winner after winner up on here..but is wrong all the time..they make you sick don't they?
EC1
On a break
agree..nothing is totally conclusive yet...the signs are there for sure though..but its horse racing and horses ..and trainers.. make fools of us all eventually
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Frankel
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4,988
Dismissing Djak :nono:
Won't be easy winning at 3rd attempt but he's young enough.
I wouldn't be dismissing him, especially if there is juice in the ground.
EC1
On a break
fair comment...it took a very good one to beat him this year..above average winner is DC..and Coneygree was a good one.
Frankel
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4,988
His first Gold Cup was some effort being a baby in that ground.
Just wish he had that ground this year as am sure he would have won. Thought Cossack was a player here after last years Ryanair.
As the week went on in Cheltenham week I knew my lad was up against it with the winner with the ground drying. Ruddy gutted. Yet it took a darn good one to beat him on his favoured ground.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Are we really to believe that Vautour hasn't worked well since the turn of the year and that's why he went RyanAir and not Gold Cup? Really? I haven't bought it since the moment they offered it as an excuse. On what planet do you run a horse over shorter because he hasn't worked as well over what sounded like a sustained period of time? If they were worried about bottoming him in the Gold Cup why didn't they sidestep Cheltenham and aim for the bowl and Punchestown?
For me the horse was Gold Cup bound but they knew all the while that he was a doubtful stayer and decided to go for the race over a distance he was proven. They knew they were cutting off their nose to spite their face with the quicker ground not to be in Djakadam's favour. Vautour won well enough to suggest that he was well in himself and in good form.
I think they know deep down he won't get the Gold Cup trip, certainly not with his running style. After all, this was the perfect year to experiment on better ground and Coneygree-less. They will certainly rue it if next years renewal is stacked with pace and it belts down on days 1/2/3.
For me the horse was Gold Cup bound but they knew all the while that he was a doubtful stayer and decided to go for the race over a distance he was proven. They knew they were cutting off their nose to spite their face with the quicker ground not to be in Djakadam's favour. Vautour won well enough to suggest that he was well in himself and in good form.
I think they know deep down he won't get the Gold Cup trip, certainly not with his running style. After all, this was the perfect year to experiment on better ground and Coneygree-less. They will certainly rue it if next years renewal is stacked with pace and it belts down on days 1/2/3.
Trainers do it all the time with horses having their first run after a break, which is little different to the situation they were in with Vautour.
Conspiracy theorists have yet to give a reasonable explanation of where the gain was for connections in misleading the public about the horse's target. Ricci hardly needs an even money coup to sort his finances, does he?
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THe gamble was that they had Djakadam as good as possible. He ran a cracker I thought in the Gold Cup but beaten by a better horse. The might have misgivings about Vautour over the trip but the lure of winning both appealed to Ruby and Willie, not so much Ricci.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Don't know about deep down Dan I think Ruby is 100% sure he won't get the Gold Cup trip and the only way to convince Ricci to go Ryanair was to sell him a fairy story,
Vautour looked a picture and ran/won like a horse who was at the top of his game.
I reckon trainer and Jockey thought they could win both races and sending Vautour and unlikely stayer was like sending someone on a fools erand.
Ricci is adamant he wants to go Gold Cup, Ruby thinks he's correct and the horse won't stay so emerges the not working well enough story...Ruby and probably WPM get their own way.
I have never know any horse who was so well fancied nit run in his chosen race if fit.
Like Nicky Henderson said before Kempton about Sprinter..........he said if it comes up too soft I won't run him but if it comes up soft or worse at Cheltenham then you have no choice you have to go.
Total BS about the horse working badly he simply isn't a Gold Cup horse and never will be.
Vautour looked a picture and ran/won like a horse who was at the top of his game.
I reckon trainer and Jockey thought they could win both races and sending Vautour and unlikely stayer was like sending someone on a fools erand.
Ricci is adamant he wants to go Gold Cup, Ruby thinks he's correct and the horse won't stay so emerges the not working well enough story...Ruby and probably WPM get their own way.
I have never know any horse who was so well fancied nit run in his chosen race if fit.
Like Nicky Henderson said before Kempton about Sprinter..........he said if it comes up too soft I won't run him but if it comes up soft or worse at Cheltenham then you have no choice you have to go.
Total BS about the horse working badly he simply isn't a Gold Cup horse and never will be.
EC1
On a break
i've never seen anyone as unhappy as that after winning a G1...people just need to read the body language to know that Ricci knew he had been done up like a kipper,,he wasn't a happy puppy
Might see a few of his horses spread around now. Rightly so. As an owner it surely makes perfect sense not to be on hoc to one trainer
"Willie. I was at nickys this morning and he told me that if I had him we would have the next three gcs"
" so get your fcking finger out and tell laughing boy to shut it"
"Willie. I was at nickys this morning and he told me that if I had him we would have the next three gcs"
" so get your fcking finger out and tell laughing boy to shut it"
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Of course they did Reet don't be so naive.....as long as Ruby Walsh's arse is pointing to the ground he will never accept that an owner knows better than he does and WPM will back him to the hilt every time.
100% they did a sales job on Ricci believing they were doing the right thing...several times Ruby had said beforehand he should run in the Ryanair everyone knows that
granger
Senior Jockey
Good - he should see it out no problems
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
You know my take on this..the quicker they find out how far he will stay the better.
He is entered but that does not say he will run and I suspect he might not.
This horse may well be the best horse in training and him stepping up in trip doesn't even make the news?
The reporter never even mentions it...........it's also worth 10k less than the Magull on Saturday which is over 2 miles.
I don't think the intention is to run I think it's no more than an option but I really hope I am wrong
He is entered but that does not say he will run and I suspect he might not.
This horse may well be the best horse in training and him stepping up in trip doesn't even make the news?
The reporter never even mentions it...........it's also worth 10k less than the Magull on Saturday which is over 2 miles.
I don't think the intention is to run I think it's no more than an option but I really hope I am wrong
granger
Senior Jockey
Henry has a very interesting horse lined up for the 2 miler. Bet he is hoping Douvan goes elsewhere
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Douvan stepping up in trip, Vautour stepping back down in trip for the Melling, UDS possibly not good enough to depend on......are we heading for Tingle Creek QMCC for Vautour and King George Gold Cup Douvan?
That I would love to see
That I would love to see
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Well, WPM and co are sure to be thinking of changing strategy rather than just accepting they are not going to be winning the Gold Cup next season.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
This could be the way WPM is thinking
Willie Mullins on his very impressive Douvan
"Relieved to get on the board. Phew! We just keep running him and running him, where do you go next? If he stays and he settles, he will be a Gold Cup horse. We think he could be anything"
"He was only really going at one pace, but it was a pace quicker than the others. It didn't bother him (hitting the last)."
Cheltenham 2.10
1 Douvan (R Walsh) 1-4 Fav
2 Sizing John (J J Burke) 9-1
3 Fox Norton (R Johnson) 33-1
If he is in the overnight decs for 2m4f chase I will be backing him for both the King George and the Gold Cup beforehand as you won't get the current prices afterwards
Willie Mullins on his very impressive Douvan
"Relieved to get on the board. Phew! We just keep running him and running him, where do you go next? If he stays and he settles, he will be a Gold Cup horse. We think he could be anything"
"He was only really going at one pace, but it was a pace quicker than the others. It didn't bother him (hitting the last)."
Cheltenham 2.10
1 Douvan (R Walsh) 1-4 Fav
2 Sizing John (J J Burke) 9-1
3 Fox Norton (R Johnson) 33-1
If he is in the overnight decs for 2m4f chase I will be backing him for both the King George and the Gold Cup beforehand as you won't get the current prices afterwards
Correct yes, sorry I just meant in terms of the target race at the highest level.
I'm not really fussed by this misleading of the public. If people want to hang off Mullins, Ricci's and Walsh's every word all year round they have nobody to blame but themselves when something doesn't work out to the letter.
I completely agree. It was a huge run in the King George it really was, and whilst you can make a very strong case for him being better left handed and around Cheltenham, that extra 2 1/4f is just too much for me.
Really, Walsh and Mullins should have been honest with Ricci and told him to forget the GC. You have to look at how many Supreme winners go on to make Gold Cup horses. I love Douvan and have since his 2nd race in Ireland but I'd have reservations about him being a staying chaser. He looks to have too much speed to me and I think the trip at Aintree next week could be his limit.
And rightly so. Ruby rides these animals and if I was Ricci whilst I'd want to make my own decisions I'd do so on the information available and not pipe dreams.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Unfortunately Dan with owners (Having been one myself) many are not like you. Their horse hacks up in a handicap hurdle at Sedgefield and the first words that come out their mouths is "Cheltenham"
My trainer/friend from way back could say anything to me and thought nothing of telling me "You are just the owner shut up I'll tell you where the horse is running" Fooking Cheltenham are you on drugs?
If owner would accept, as you say, that their Jockey and in many cases to a lesser degree their trainers are the best judges of what the horses are capable of they would be a lot more successful.
Mr Ricci would be a lot more popular if he didn't talk to the media so much and when he does he should coin the phrase "I'll leave that up to Willie"
My trainer/friend from way back could say anything to me and thought nothing of telling me "You are just the owner shut up I'll tell you where the horse is running" Fooking Cheltenham are you on drugs?
If owner would accept, as you say, that their Jockey and in many cases to a lesser degree their trainers are the best judges of what the horses are capable of they would be a lot more successful.
Mr Ricci would be a lot more popular if he didn't talk to the media so much and when he does he should coin the phrase "I'll leave that up to Willie"