AP McCoy

The flat is more stamina taxing than the jumps whilst more mentally draining which is why you have to put the likes of Ryan Moore above McCoy even though its highly unlikely he or any other flat jockey could get to over 3000 winners due to the extreme nature if their discipline and competition
 
Grasshopper said:
Slim, you yourself have stated that AP McCoy chose to "stay loyal" to McManus, rather than take the Henderson job. Loyalty is a virtue often missing in top-end sportsmen, and is generally to be applauded, rather than wielded against someone as "selling out".

Whatever his riding-arrangment motivations, they should not detract from what he has achieved in an unprecedented career. :cool:
Click to expand...

'Loyal' to a million quid handshake to ride yacks. A glorious career indeed.
 
You're talking from hindsight, few people thought he would continue to be champion ad infinitum after he left Pipe's.
 
I'd imagine he was still 1/5 at best. Regardless of that hindsight does not take away from my points.
 
EC1 said:
good point Grey

its a good job mind you that he didn't do it in the 1960's when it were pi$$ easy..jockeys then just doin it part time..eating fatty breakfasts..pi$$ed every night...in fact National Hunt racing then was so easy to win at its unreal...an accountant could be top trainer in his lunch hour..horses could carry 20 stone and win as most horses had just come out the farmers field
Click to expand...

Exactly so, according to Sir (Bloody) Mark Prescottat any rate:

Sir Mark Prescott, top Flat trainer and ex-jockey

“It’s staggering, absolutely staggering, and how unlucky can any man be to be Richard Johnson. You’d have thought the fella would get injured one year and you’d win it, but it was Johnson who got injured. He is the most remarkable man. I had a short riding career and Fred Winter famously said jockeys only ride for five seasons and after that they just go round, meaning they save themselves. Jockeys are so much fitter than in my day. In my day it was their second job. They were farmers and had other things to do. The professionalism of today among National Hunt jockeys is just incredible. It’s a completely different era and he is just the most extraordinary man.”
Click to expand...
 
When AP left Martin Pipe, the yard was on the downturn and he knew that.

The big money owners had gone and the best horses from France were going elsewhere.

At the time, JP was buying everything and the Jackdaws operation looked like it would be the next big force. JP had bluebloods everywhere and Henderson wasn't anywhere near full of the stuff he has had recently.

I find it hard to believe that AP would have expected such a shortage of super horses coming his way over these years from his retainer.

He has had good ones and a National and Gold Cup but I thought there would be many, many more.

Amazing jockey and I'm glad to have seen him from a claimer at Worcester years ago.
 
What I found impressive is that each milestone of 1000 winners has been achieved every five years;

1,000th 1999
2,000th 2004
3,000th 2009

However, his latest milestone of 4000 winners has been completed in 4 years, considering the injuries he has sustained and his age, it really is some achievement.

I get the point that he could have been associated with some top horses, and took the easy handshake deal but my god he has had to work for it & it was the wisest choice in my opinion. Yes people remember good horses, but they don't always remember the Jockey's name. Sprinter Sacre may well be remembered in years to come, but that doesn't mean Barry Geraghty will be.

AP has created his own legacy, and raised the profile of Racing whilst also making a wise financial move for himself. Reported £1 million per year retainer since he joined McManus in 2004. Also take into account he has accrued £18,681,063 in total prize money since 2004, so 10% of that spread over the last 9 seasons is just over £200K per year added to his £1 million retainer. He has averaged 804 rides a season over the last nine seasons, which equates to 2.2 rides a day. 2-3 rides a day for circa £1.2million per year. So what if he didn’t take the Henderson job, if I was McCoy I would see that as a step down. Let’s not forget the big races he has won and on some top horses;

Cheltenham Festival
• Cheltenham Gold Cup: Mr Mulligan 1997, Synchronised 2012
• Champion Chase: Edredon Bleu 2000
• Champion Hurdle: Make A Stand 1997, Brave Inca 2006, Binocular 2010
• Arkle Challenge Trophy: Or Royal 1997, Champleve 1998, Well Chief 2004
• Ryanair Chase: Albertas Run, 2010, 2011
• William Hill Trophy: Wichita Lineman 2009
• RSA Chase: Albertas Run 2008
• Supreme Novices' Hurdle: Hors La Loi III 1999
• Jewson Novices' Chase: Noble Prince 2011
• County Hurdle: Blowing Wind 1998, Alderwood 2012
• Albert Bartlett Novices' Hurdle: Black Jack Ketchum 2006, Wichita Lineman 2007, At Fishers Cross 2013
• Byrne Group Plate: Majadou 1999
• Johnny Henderson Grand Annual Chase: Kibreet 1996, Edredon Bleu 1998, Alderwood 2013
• Pertemps Final (Handicap Hurdle): Unsinkable Boxer 1998
• Pulteney Land Investments Novices' Handicap Chase: Reveillez 2006
• Champion Bumper: Liberman 2003
• Cathcart Challenge Cup Chase (discontinued): Cyfor Malta 1998, Royal Auclair 2002
Major Nationals
• Grand National: Don't Push It, 2010
• Welsh Grand National: Synchronised, 2010
• Irish Grand National: Butler's Cabin, 2007
• Midlands Grand National: Synchronised, 2010
• Scottish Grand National: Belmont King, 1997
Other Notable Races
• King George: Best Mate 2002
• Bet365 Gold Cup: Bounce Back 2002, Hennessy 2009
• Tingle Creek Chase: Master Minded, 2008[13]
• Paddy Power Gold Cup: Cyfor Malta 1998, Lady Cricket 2000, Shooting Light 2001, Exotic Dancer 2007
• Melling Chase: Viking Flagship 1996, Albertas Run 2010
• Aintree Hurdle: Pridwell 1998
• Sefton Novices' Hurdle: At Fishers Cross 2013
• Victor Chandler Chase: Master Minded 2011
• Christmas Hurdle: Straw Bear 2006, Binocular 2010, 2011, Darlan 2012
• Galway Plate: Finger Onthe Pulse 2010, Carlingford Lough 2013
• Lexus Chase: Exotic Dancer 2008, Synchronised 2011
• Challow Hurdle: Wichita Lineman 2006, Backspin 2010, Taquin Du Seuil 2012
• Fighting Fifth Hurdle: Straw Bear 2006
• Irish Champion Hurdle: Brave Inca 2006
• Long Walk Hurdle: Deano's Beeno 2002, Baracouda 2004, Big Buck's 2010
• Champion Novice Hurdle: Alderwood 2012
 
Grasshopper said:
Slim, you yourself have stated that AP McCoy chose to "stay loyal" to McManus, rather than take the Henderson job. Loyalty is a virtue often missing in top-end sportsmen, and is generally to be applauded, rather than wielded against someone as "selling out".

Whatever his riding-arrangment motivations, they should not detract from what he has achieved in an unprecedented career. :cool:
Click to expand...

At that time Henderson was nowhere near as powerful as he is now

Could say that he is a jockey with some unique talents but is not uniquely talented. More in the plus column than minus for me
 
Last edited:
Yes a good post but he's set no record for big winners has he and he'll rode the gaff more Saturdays than he'll care to remember.
 
Anyone think he has a chance of winning SPOTY again ? 40 -1 with Coral.

Can't see BBC putting him in their list myself but... ??
 
jft2005 said:
What I found impressive is that each milestone of 1000 winners has been achieved every five years;

1,000th 1999
2,000th 2004
3,000th 2009

However, his latest milestone of 4000 winners has been completed in 4 years, considering the injuries he has sustained and his age, it really is some achievement.

I get the point that he could have been associated with some top horses, and took the easy handshake deal but my god he has had to work for it & it was the wisest choice in my opinion. Yes people remember good horses, but they don't always remember the Jockey's name. Sprinter Sacre may well be remembered in years to come, but that doesn't mean Barry Geraghty will be.

AP has created his own legacy, and raised the profile of Racing whilst also making a wise financial move for himself. Reported £1 million per year retainer since he joined McManus in 2004. Also take into account he has accrued £18,681,063 in total prize money since 2004, so 10% of that spread over the last 9 seasons is just over £200K per year added to his £1 million retainer. He has averaged 804 rides a season over the last nine seasons, which equates to 2.2 rides a day. 2-3 rides a day for circa £1.2million per year. So what if he didn’t take the Henderson job, if I was McCoy I would see that as a step down. Let’s not forget the big races he has won and on some top horses;

Cheltenham Festival
• Cheltenham Gold Cup: Mr Mulligan 1997, Synchronised 2012
• Champion Chase: Edredon Bleu 2000
• Champion Hurdle: Make A Stand 1997, Brave Inca 2006, Binocular 2010
• Arkle Challenge Trophy: Or Royal 1997, Champleve 1998, Well Chief 2004
• Ryanair Chase: Albertas Run, 2010, 2011
• William Hill Trophy: Wichita Lineman 2009
• RSA Chase: Albertas Run 2008
• Supreme Novices' Hurdle: Hors La Loi III 1999
• Jewson Novices' Chase: Noble Prince 2011
• County Hurdle: Blowing Wind 1998, Alderwood 2012
• Albert Bartlett Novices' Hurdle: Black Jack Ketchum 2006, Wichita Lineman 2007, At Fishers Cross 2013
• Byrne Group Plate: Majadou 1999
• Johnny Henderson Grand Annual Chase: Kibreet 1996, Edredon Bleu 1998, Alderwood 2013
• Pertemps Final (Handicap Hurdle): Unsinkable Boxer 1998
• Pulteney Land Investments Novices' Handicap Chase: Reveillez 2006
• Champion Bumper: Liberman 2003
• Cathcart Challenge Cup Chase (discontinued): Cyfor Malta 1998, Royal Auclair 2002
Major Nationals
• Grand National: Don't Push It, 2010
• Welsh Grand National: Synchronised, 2010
• Irish Grand National: Butler's Cabin, 2007
• Midlands Grand National: Synchronised, 2010
• Scottish Grand National: Belmont King, 1997
Other Notable Races
• King George: Best Mate 2002
• Bet365 Gold Cup: Bounce Back 2002, Hennessy 2009
• Tingle Creek Chase: Master Minded, 2008[13]
• Paddy Power Gold Cup: Cyfor Malta 1998, Lady Cricket 2000, Shooting Light 2001, Exotic Dancer 2007
• Melling Chase: Viking Flagship 1996, Albertas Run 2010
• Aintree Hurdle: Pridwell 1998
• Sefton Novices' Hurdle: At Fishers Cross 2013
• Victor Chandler Chase: Master Minded 2011
• Christmas Hurdle: Straw Bear 2006, Binocular 2010, 2011, Darlan 2012
• Galway Plate: Finger Onthe Pulse 2010, Carlingford Lough 2013
• Lexus Chase: Exotic Dancer 2008, Synchronised 2011
• Challow Hurdle: Wichita Lineman 2006, Backspin 2010, Taquin Du Seuil 2012
• Fighting Fifth Hurdle: Straw Bear 2006
• Irish Champion Hurdle: Brave Inca 2006
• Long Walk Hurdle: Deano's Beeno 2002, Baracouda 2004, Big Buck's 2010
• Champion Novice Hurdle: Alderwood 2012
Click to expand...

More summer jumping now, more in Ireland. Its phenomenal how much he has won and long may it continue.
 
It is amazing the numbers of winners and runners he has had.


About his quality
I much prefer on a horse I have backed someone like Ruby or Carberry in the big races.

Ruby is the most succesful rider of his generation, he has not won so mano races but has earned more money and the big races that will be remembered.


The same with flat
You will remember steve cauthen and Ryan Moore and not hanagan or Kevin darley.
 
Last edited:
I remember that Guardian article, but McCoy is no Russell Baze all the same. Most days he's riding against the best in Britain.

(For those of you who haven't heard of him, Russell Baze has won more races in the US than any other jockey. He has achieved this by through his domination of north Californian racing and staying away from the much bigger tracks around LA.)
 
Reading JFT's list of big race wins I think makes the point that he didn't win many big races over 18 years, rather than the opposite. Geraghty and Walsh would have similar lists. I admire McCoy and what he has been saying in the press over the last few days. I hope he gets more chances in the top races in the years he has left.
 
Just watched his ride on Syncronised in the Gold Cup on RUK replay. It is an absolute master-class in relentless, dogged, perseverance.

McCoy still gets more horses in the Winner's Enclosure that have no entitlement to be there, and that's a better measure of a jockey's merit than any other, imo.
 
Grasshopper said:
Just watched his ride on Syncronised in the Gold Cup on RUK replay. It is an absolute master-class in relentless, dogged, perseverance.

McCoy still gets more horses in the Winner's Enclosure that have no entitlement to be there, and that's a better measure of a jockey's merit than any other, imo.
Click to expand...

I agree and I think this is the main difference between him and a lot of other jockeys. He nevers coasts round, he never thinks I am just here for a 'pootle' round.

So what if he took a fat retainer? With the age he was and the injuries he had already had, maybe he was trying to protect his future a little and that of his family, but it doesn't mean he takes any of it for granted.

I don't think he's the best jockey around but if I ever had him on a horse of mine, at least I would know he wasn't just there for the ride.

And more taxing for flat jockeys? No way. 6 races a day slogging round Towcester in the mud easier than a summer day at Sandown? Never.
 
I think Toby Balding made an interesting point when interviewed yesterday - as of course the man who gave AP his first break.

I don't necessarily say he is the best jockey I have ever seen but he is the most effective and productive.

Indeed, it is that he may not have the most natural talent but still has become such a fabulous jockey day in day out is what marks him out . The ride to win the 4000th just summed him up .
 
Grasshopper said:
Just watched his ride on Syncronised in the Gold Cup on RUK replay. It is an absolute master-class in relentless, dogged, perseverance.

McCoy still gets more horses in the Winner's Enclosure that have no entitlement to be there, and that's a better measure of a jockey's merit than any other, imo.
Click to expand...

Spot on, there isn't a jockey that has ever lived that would have won on Wichita Lineman, they would have all pulled up with a circuit to go
 
Back
Top