Arc 2010

Ryan? If you are putting John Ryan on a list of good trainers next to Mark Johnston and Richard Fahey, I think you better ave a word with yourself. Did you sleep through October - June?
 
As a 128/9 animal over 12f he was always gonna struggle to pick up a big prize over a shorter trip. He should never have run in the Eclipse and the Irish Champion
Click to expand...

Nor should STS then ....
 
Hamm said:
I don't think we saw the Arc winner in France yesterday.
Click to expand...

I just don't know who is realistically a challenge to Fame And Glory if it wasn't yesterdays runners (bar Cape Blanco).

Youmzain is a course specialist but he's getting older and he's simply not good enough to beat progressive three year olds or a colt of Fame and Glory's quality.

I now actually think Fame deserves to be favourite for the race and I simply hope his arguably unorthodox preparation is his downfall as a backer of Behkehbad, Planteur and Cape Blanco (I'm well aware the latter is an unlikely runner).

At a big price, I was quite taken with the Japanese three year old Victoire Pisa, he won't win the race but I'd be keen to try and buy his finishing position on the spreads. Was cruising when they turned for home and went out as if he really needed the run after over three months off.
 
Incidently, Sarafina is one of the worst prices I've ever seen for this. Ladbrokes still have her in at 8/1.

I'd love someone to price a match bet up with one of the bigger priced horses up on the day, she's got no chance whatsoever.
 
I would say if the ground came up fast at Longchamp they would seriously consider running Cape Blanco along with Fame And Glory.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Youmzain is a course specialist but he's getting older and he's simply not good enough to beat progressive three year olds or a colt of Fame and Glory's quality.
Click to expand...

Youmzain has beaten every progressive 3 year old in the last 3 Arcs with the exception of Sea the Stars and Zarkava, and there is certainly no horse of their calibre this year.

His form this year looks very close to previous seasons.

Horses for courses. He is still the best bet in the Arc, and by a distance.

Agree about Sarafina. Very strange.

Very unfortunate for the race that Cecil/Abdullah are running scared with Midday - takes a lot away from the horse not leaving her race against colts.
 
Hamm said:
Youmzain has beaten every progressive 3 year old in the last 3 Arcs with the exception of Sea the Stars and Zarkava, and there is certainly no horse of their calibre this year.

His form this year looks very close to previous seasons.
Click to expand...

Splitting Plumania and Daryakana (two very average fillies on this years form) isn't up there with his previous form imo.

His Coronation effort was his best this year best but he was well beat by Fame and Fame probably hadn't even reached his peak.

I agree he's likely to be in the top six, probably will even place but it's a big ask for him to turn over all of two, maybe three or four top class three-year olds (Cape Blanco and Workforce - Everyone seems to have forgot the latter) and Fame.

Totally agree about Midday, don't think she's good enough to win but she'd certainly be in the mix and it's weak of them to duck a race like this with a filly who's won so many top class races. She deserves to take her chance.
 
I would say the Coronation is quite close to Fame's peak, maybe has another pound or two in the tank.

Yes, his form isn't that much to write home in terms of winning an Arc but he has made similar jumps in form to come second the last 3 years, and the bulletins are positive (aren't they always from the virtuoso Channon!) he can do the same this year.

You know you need to add him to your Portfolio!
 
The only reason I'd back him would be because I wouldn't be able stand your smug self jumping around Longchamp should he somehow win! :p
 
A low blow.

All I remember from last year's Arc is a very worried young man thinking Youmzain was going to catch STS - there is no Sea the Stars this year to save you.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Incidently, Sarafina is one of the worst prices I've ever seen for this. Ladbrokes still have her in at 8/1.
Click to expand...

The same thing happened with Shawanda is Hurricane Run's year. I know she won her Vermeille (although it was a terrible renewal) but some bookmakers do run scared of his highnesses runners no matter what their form.
 
Disagree there Euro ... Shawanda fractured her pelvis coming round the home turn and may well have gone very close. A real top, top filly, and I was a big fan.
 
I was there that year, and thought Bago a little unlucky (came quite wide iirc). Great ride by Fallon on Hurricane Run. The atmosphere that year was incredible, much better than the other time i've been (last year).
 
Euronymous said:
Fahey
Johnston
Ryan

to name three. And whilst Roger Charlton, Jeremy Noseda and William Haggas have never seen a council estate up here they are all fine trainers I'd have my horses with in a second if I were a rich man.



He made a right pigs ear of Motivator's career imo.
Click to expand...

Of the three "Northern" trainers you've picked out only Johnston has a better strike rate than Bell on Turf and he is effectively a salaried Maktoum trainer who gets expensive bloodstock. The other two are decent trainers, in particular Fahey, but Bell has delivered when he's had good horses.

Motivator was a fast horse who got 12f. It's no surprise they went the route they did. Authorized, Sea the Stars, New Approach all went a similar route; with varying success.
 
I remain convinced Fame and Glory is capable of a 130ish performance with a bit of ease in the ground in a strongly run 12 furlong contest when ridden handily.
 
Aragorn said:
Motivator was a fast horse who got 12f. It's no surprise they went the route they did. Authorized, Sea the Stars, New Approach all went a similar route; with varying success.
Click to expand...

I understand why they went for the Eclipse but after he was beat there the King George or the International made more sense than Leopardstown. The key word you used was success, Motivator being the only one of that quartet who didn't score at the top level over 10f.
 
Of the three "Northern" trainers you've picked out only Johnston has a better strike rate than Bell
Click to expand...

Northern = working class apparently. But wasnt johnston the son of vets? Hardly fits that bill... correct me if im wrong

One trainer definately from working class background (if we have to go on about that) is mick Channon. Even though hes from the south
 
Euronymous said:
I understand why they went for the Eclipse but after he was beat there the King George or the International made more sense than Leopardstown. The key word you used was success, Motivator being the only one of that quartet who didn't score at the top level over 10f.
Click to expand...


Varying success is what I actually said and therefore i'm not saying Bell was successful afterwards. He did win the Dante and Derby though and Motivator was just touched off twice by a very good 10f performer. Authorized got turned over in the eclipse. I still come back to your original point - Bell is clearly not useless and your pocket talk is unfounded. She would have halved in price instantly on sunday if she'd left the stalls and you knew that when you took the price.

Clive, that was the exact point I was trying to make without being so obvious! It seems if your a southern trainer in Newmarket you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth!
 
To be fair, I don't think Euro was claiming Mark Johnston as a working class trainer (whatever that means or even matters).
 
Euronymous said:
Maybe a little although I did cover with Midday so I didn't lose anything. I just think some of these ex public schoolboy trainers haven't got the credentials and get by on the connections they made when they were assistants. I can't understand why anyone would send them horses to train when there are so many other superior handlers.
Click to expand...

Ok - Maybe not but he's calling Bell and the well spoken trainers public schoolboys who've got where they are because of who they are which in my opinion is completely unfair. This is a results business and if you don't deliver you won't get the horses...
 
You are like a dog with a bone with this. I was mad on Sunday and probably more with myself for backing her as I sort of knew she wouldn't leave the stalls. When you see him give him my apologies.
 
Back
Top