Arkle Appreciation Group

  • Thread starter Thread starter ArkleSupreme
  • Start date Start date
Arkle was the best all-round chaser I've seen. But we've got Sprinter Sacre to have a good look at now. I haven't seen a better novice (we don't yet know how good he is) and I'm hopeful he can go very high.
 
Indeed,SteveM and I was aware of his prowess from the outset which is why I have already created a separate Sprinter Sacre appreciation thread.

Add comments there by all means.
 
Kauto star would of left arkle for dead at kempton I'm sure of that he holds the king George track record which no other horse can match , he also broke arkle winning margin that stood for 44 years and when you start breaking arkle records you know you have the greatest of all time king kauto the record breaker !!
 
Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds,mayes !

Digest the FACTS....

ARKLE 4 WINS FROM 4 CHELTENHAM FESTIVALS

KAUTO STAR 2 WINS FROM 7 CHELTENHAM FESTIVALS

ARKLE 22 WINS 4 PLACINGS FROM 26 CHASES

KAUTO STAR 16 WINS 5 PLACINGS 3 FALLS 2 PULLED UP FROM 26 CHASES

ARKLE MAXIMUM WEIGHT CARRIED TO VICTORY 12ST 10LBS

KAUTO STAR MAXIMUM WEIGHT CARRIED TO VICTORY 11ST 10LBS

ARKLES CAREER CURTAILED AGED 9 OTHERWISE EVEN MORE WINS WOULD HAVE BEEN ADDED....KAUTO STAR RETIRED AGED 12

TIMEFORM RATING....ARKLE 212 KAUTO STAR 191 (far too generous in my view as both Mill House and Denman were better)

E.O.S

BTW Mayes....Arkle won the 1965 King George in a hack canter by 30 lengths AND he was conceding 21lbs to the opposition...not running at level weights as Kauto Star always did.

And to answer your nonsensical point that Arkle only had a few runners to race against...it was OBVIOUS to all and sundry there was no point taking him on at level weights as no-one would get near him...whereas Kauto Star never scared off the opposition as they knew he was beatable..even at level weights...which he was ...several times over !

Enjoy !
 
ArkleSupreme said:
Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds,mayes !

Digest the FACTS....

ARKLE 4 WINS FROM 4 CHELTENHAM FESTIVALS

KAUTO STAR 2 WINS FROM 7 CHELTENHAM FESTIVALS

ARKLE 22 WINS 4 PLACINGS FROM 26 CHASES

KAUTO STAR 16 WINS 5 PLACINGS 3 FALLS 2 PULLED UP FROM 26 CHASES

ARKLE MAXIMUM WEIGHT CARRIED TO VICTORY 12ST 10LBS

KAUTO STAR MAXIMUM WEIGHT CARRIED TO VICTORY 11ST 10LBS

ARKLES CAREER CURTAILED AGED 9 OTHERWISE EVEN MORE WINS WOULD HAVE BEEN ADDED....KAUTO STAR RETIRED AGED 12

TIMEFORM RATING....ARKLE 212 KAUTO STAR 191 (far too generous in my view as both Mill House and Denman were better)

E.O.S

BTW Mayes....Arkle won the 1965 King George in a hack canter by 30 lengths AND he was conceding 21lbs to the opposition...not running at level weights as Kauto Star always did.

And to answer your nonsensical point that Arkle only had a few runners to race against...it was OBVIOUS to all and sundry there was no point taking him on at level weights as no-one would get near him...whereas Kauto Star never scared off the opposition as they knew he was beatable..even at level weights...which he was ...several times over !

Enjoy !
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did they change the rules of the King George?..i thought it has always been level weights
 
I seem to remember he scared them all of at Exeter racecourse the day he fell and remounted and nearly won the only horse to win 16 grade 1 races and win them in 7 yrs consecutivly the only horse to win 5 kings the only horse to win 4 betfairs the only horse to regain the gold cup the only horse to highest rated at 2 to 3 m2 holds the record winning distance at kempton breaking arkles record the most prize money ever earned by a chaser smashed the course record by 10 seconds at 12 beating the youngest gold cup winner since mill house as paul nicholls stated he is just the best ,no comparison to me king kauto the greatest of them all
 
Yes they did EC1....Arkle carried 12st 7lbs in the 1966 race conceding 21lbs to all the opposition there.

mayes..stop living the dream...he wasn't even the best horse in his own yard....Big Bucks has achieved more and remains unbeaten over long distance staying hurdles...whilst Denman beat Kauto Star three times out of the four they met.

Simples.
 
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Denman did not beat kauto In the 2010 gold cup ,kauto beat himself with a mistake tell me supreme what is the highest rated gold cup since arkle I think you know , he is the highest rated chaser paul nicholls has ever trained he's the best ever been to me arkle beat dormant in the king gorge a 2 mile horse what distance is the king George it couldn't of been 2 miles because arkle never won A 2 mile chase see I rest my case :)
 
ArkleSupreme said:
Yes they did EC1....Arkle carried 12st 7lbs in the 1966 race conceding 21lbs to all the opposition there.

mayes..stop living the dream...he wasn't even the best horse in his own yard....Big Bucks has achieved more and remains unbeaten over long distance staying hurdles...whilst Denman beat Kauto Star three times out of the four they met.

Simples.
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i can't find anywhere that confirms this..he broke a pedal bone in the 1966 running

do you mean the 1965 running?
 
Yes EC1 he carried 12st 7lbs in the 1966 race...12st in the 1965 race.

Arkle beat 4 Gold Cup winners and a Champion 2 mile chaser,mayes !

Also he was never unplaced in 26 steeplechases.

Your champion fell several times and was PULLED UP twice....very good chaser at his best but not a "true great" !

Far more research required !
 
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EC1 said:
i can't find anywhere that confirms this..he broke a pedal bone in the 1966 running

do you mean the 1965 running?
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Arkle fractured the pedal bone of his off-fore hoof in the KG on 27 December 1966, when finishing runner up. This ended his career.

The KG was a conditions race in 1966. Arkle had to concede 21lb to his six opponents.

He carried 12st 7lb in the SGB Handicap Chase at Ascot winning by 15 lengths earlier in the same year.
 
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I'm not the worlds best at ratings and to what that equates to in terms of lengths. So if the king George was run tomorrow with both horses running to there highest rating what distance would Arkle beat Kauto?
 
bigfow said:
I'm not the worlds best at ratings and to what that equates to in terms of lengths. So if the king George was run tomorrow with both horses running to there highest rating what distance would Arkle beat Kauto?
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Timeform jumps handicapper Phil Turner gave Kauto 191 at his peak, the highest figure since Timeform’s Chasers & Hurdlers series began in 1975/76. Turner also commented “we're still confident Arkle was the greatest horse in National Hunt history, the fact we rate Kauto Star as the best since his era should be viewed as a huge compliment when one considers some of the names who'd previously vied for that title”.

Randall and Morris, calculating an equivalent rating for Arkle, reckon he was 212.

It's virtually impossible to quantify how far Arkle would have beaten Kauto.

This is not to say that Kauto is overall number 2 though. Horses like Easter Hero, Flyingbolt, Golden Miller, Dunkirk, Mill House, Captain Christy, should be considered and in more recent times Burrough Hill Lad, Desert Orchid, Denman, Moscow Flyer and others put up big performances.

Dunkirk was a favourite of mine. In 1965 he beat Mill House (at levels) by 15 lengths at Ascot and defied 12st 7lb in the Mackeson giving 31lb to the runner up. He broke his neck when trying to match strides with Arkle in the 1965 KG.
 
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The ratings mean nothing if they did I wouldn't lose a bet kauto star was 10lb higher rated than denman in 08 gold cup but lost so ur saying arkle would of beaten any horse since 1960s is beyond belief for me he was not a machine he was a horse and was beaten on 4 occassions in one he was receiving weight and lost something that would never happen to kauto star you put arkle in today's races he would be beaten by the likes of kauto star ,denman
 
Big tow kauto star achieved a higher rating in the king George than arkle did at the time and kauto demolished a true high class field not like arkle who beat a 2 miler in a 3 mile race .
 
I am too young to watch Arkle
but with the experience of reading books and doing the form for a long time

Kauto was top class but
it is obvious Arkle was a much better horse than Kauto star.
 
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