Ascot Gold Cup

I'm sure it does, Ven.

I still firmly believe in living in the Dark Ages, however, and will continue to use all the information I can when planning a breeding. Your article is only analysing the concept of nicks with regard to equines (naturally enough, as this is an equine related forum). The simple fact is, certain pedigree lines of many species work better with some than others and can be a useful tool if used sensibly, so to dismiss nicking completely seems to me to be as misguided as thinking they are the be-all and end-all. Which I don't and never have said they are.

But each to their own!
 
You know what? I made a perfectly civil response to Brown Jack's observation about SADLERS WELLS and there being no reference book on the horse and got a pretty rude response from you, Ven, which generated a curt reply back but, for some reason, that doesn't appear to be acceptable and a pretty obvious attempt at baiting was then posted.

I really couldn't give a 4x whether you consider nicking to be totally useless or the best thing since sliced bread. Your remarks on this are patronising in the extreme and yes, I did read the article. It has good and bad points to it but I really can't be 'bothered' (good word) to even attempt to discuss it on here because it's becoming ever more difficult to have a discussion which doesn't generate into some sort of rant.

Unlike RoryD, I have no idea how successful you've been in the breeding world or not - it would be generous of you to share your practical experience on here because sometimes it seems to be a bit of a one-way exchange.

I'm still on a learning curve breeding stock and expect to be until the day I die and I would never rule out any practical information when producing stock. I haven't been super successful but have done OK with what I've had to work with and have been fortunate to have access to some very astute breeding experts over the years.

Make of this what you will - it's not going to be rocket science who else will have there say on this but, quite frankly, I'm done with TH. There's an element of stalking on here that is pretty unpleasant and, while I thought it would be OK to make the occasional post on here since I stopped moderating, it quite obviously isn't the case and I get the message my posts aren't welcome.

No great loss in the big scheme of things and I no doubt will exchange posts with those on TH that also post on FF.
 
Songsheet's response to Brown Jack was perfectly civil, but I think while Ven's response was robust, it hardly came across as rude ~ possibly an opportunity for discussion, but it surely wasn't offensive. I don't know whether there is any history, but his contributions to the forum have historically been very educational and not aggressively put across. It's a pity we couldn't have a frank and open discussion about nicks or outcrosses or whatever as many of us would gain some insight from both sides.

What Songsheet should remember is that she was especially rude to sheikh without reason a while ago, disappeared to FF to laugh at him and didn't have the decency to explain or apologise for her comments. The 'stalking' she complains of was, on my part, simply highlighting the fact that Sheikh ddn't deserve ridicule for a perfectly reasonable comment. This cross pollination of threads between TH and FF really isn't in anyone's interest.
 
Good piece in the Racingpost today regarding Yeats. Not so much Tony O’Heir piece but the article regarding Yeat’s heart and lung size is particularly interesting.

Yeats is now due to take in Goodwood (along with Honolulu). I wonder (after this weekend) where Septimus will go?
 
Originally posted by Bar the Bull@Jun 25 2008, 11:40 AM
Admittedly, it wasn't very funny. I regretted typing it as soon as I had posted.
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Missed your gag entirely Bar ~ but Yeats would be a maximum lay in the Hawaiian Gold Cup if that helps :P
 
Thanks Gal, I will get the RP. I wonder if they are going to try to win the Stayers Triple Crown with him too? Not done since Double Trigger in 1995, but nearly done by Punch in his last season.

Although Doncaster comes close to the Irish St Leger.

I'd just like to say that I have enjoyed reading the opinions of Ven, whoever he may be, and the experience of Songsheet and found them useful in learning about TB breeding. Songsheet is honest about failures, mistakes and successes. Our family and friends often talk to breeders, and bloodstock agents and all have their own way of doing things. Tony Morris says no point in going back more than 3 generations, while Patrick Brain says 5. Or even further. One successful breeder we met breeds like to like and another breeds a small mare to a big stallion. Both work for them.

When you look at some of the breeding that works out, and some that does not work out, you have to conclude that there is some kind of mysterious magic between some horses, at some point - and then when a full brother fails, that it was not there on another day. And that some people just have an eye for a horse and are able to use that to chose a stallion for their dam. There are a lot of gifted people in racing and some who no matter how much money they throw at it cannnot get it right.

For me it is all about presence, soundness and temperament. But that is just me.

I like to think you need to learn as much as you can, take advice, study it, and then go with your own heart. It's like betting for me, some people spend hours studying the form and then find the lady next to them put £2.00 each way on a 100/1 shot because she liked him, and it wins beating the one they chose.
 
Fair post BJ ~ it always amuses me when breeding experts in exasperation go back to the old maxim "Breed the best to the best and hope for the best".
 
Sounds a good route for Yeats to take and miss the Irish Leger. Nothing to be gained in him going for that when it would be an ideal race to get Macarthur his Group 1.
 
Fair post BJ ~ it always amuses me when breeding experts in exasperation go back to the old maxim "Breed the best to the best and hope for the best".
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There are so many breeding theories but I think this encapsulates the random nature of the whole thing with the emphasis on the 'hope for the best'. Buying and breeding from the best families can increase your chances but if you look at where the Grp 1 winners come from each year many/most are not the 6 or even 7 digit purchases at the sales.Last year was a great example of that (haven't looked this year yet) However It doesn't stop sales companies going on about the top ,middle and bottom of the market which is (a) a self fulfilling prophecy dictated by what they sell for or (b)cannot be determined until the horses run.
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy@Jun 25 2008, 09:58 AM

This cross pollination of threads between TH and FF really isn't in anyone's interest.
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Absolutely - it's becoming a nightmare!

It's a shame people are getting so hypersensitive as many potentially good and informative subjects - such as this one - are being highjacked by the personal stuff :rolleyes: Will it never stop!
 
Dear oh dear, I kindly dispense some eternal truths, and what do I get in return - a bloody handbagging!
 
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Geordieland is being dropped back in trip with the Arc a long term target. Think the Geoffrey Freer is his next target.
 
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