Fair enough. I wouldn't argue she deserves to be top of the bunch of sprinters in the past 12 years.
Black Caviar
- Thread starter Gamla Stan
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Fair enough. I wouldn't argue she deserves to be top of the bunch of sprinters in the past 12 years.
Gamla Stan
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Name the better ones.
All seven of those horses (coincidentally, all British) were certainly admirable performers, but the idea that they form a subset of a "whole bunch" of horses better than Black Caviar is risible.
You can certainly make some sort of a case for Abernant, Tetratema and Dayjur, but the others were beating relative nonentities, whereas BC has annihilated genuine Group 1 horses.
If you want some sensible suggestions of possibly comparable horses, how about Todman, Vain or Dr Fager?
EC1
On a break
I was around when all those sprinters ran Steve..and tbh there is only one sprinter out of them even close to BC..and thats Dayjur...the others were good horses..but not freaks of nature..though if pushed i'd put Ubedizzy up against BC..but that would be over 4f:lol:...and afterwards ubdedizzy would have bit her ear off
Bar the Bull
At the Start
Repertory would do them all over 2f.
This isn't hype though... If she was running in Hungary they would have to change the concept of handicaps to staggered starts to give anything else a chance.
She is battering mid 120 Group 1 horses on the bridle. I don't know what else she can do to convince people otehr than sprout wings....
She is battering mid 120 Group 1 horses on the bridle. I don't know what else she can do to convince people otehr than sprout wings....
That's fine Ven. I'm mentioning those I did as they're rated higher simple as that. That you find it risible is neither here nor there.
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You are missing the point entirely. She has run consistently to a high level, but she's not the second coming and is some way short of Frankel. She's top of the bunch in the sprinting division and a worthy favourite at Ascot. That much has been said.
However, at 1/2 a month before the race running against a quality international field at Ascot against horses that are improving relative to her, she should prove worth taking on. Forgive me for having the temerity to suggest it.
You say what does she have to do. She has to come to Ascot and win. Just that.
Grand Armee
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That is your opinion, a lot of others around the world beg to differ from your opinion.
She is the best sprinter (my opinion is the last 50 years worldwide because of what she has achieved), and possibly the best horse in the world. Like many I am so sick to death of the comparisons with Frankel. They are totally different horses and race at different distances. He is the best horse in the world from 1 mile to 10f, and she is the best horse anywhere in the world under 7f.
Winning in Ascot will prove nothing, except beating B grade sprinters, who would probably be Group 2 to 3 level at best here in Australia. Hell, Ortensia supposedly beat a "world class" field in Dubai and almost broke the race and track record. Enough said when the jockey and trainer of that horse both came out after the race said "You have just not seen Black Caviar or Hay List." She was good enough to run 7 lengths behind the world champion the last time they met. A real shame Hay List broke down recently and will probably never be sighted on a track again unless some miracle occurs.
Grand Armee
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I will also take the merrits of the race fields when we see who else comes from Australia, Hong Kong and Singapore.
SINGAPORE
Rocket Man from Singapore won't be there because he hurt his ligament again and is out for a couple of months. We probably won't see him until November for the International Sprint Trial in Hong Kong leading into the International Sprint.
AUSTRALIA
Ortensia will most likely show up, but as said before she was about 3 rungs below the best we have in Australia in her prime. A weak Group 1 race in Perth was her best effort back home.
Foxwedge is looking at going. A good colt, but did lack any give in his run behind Black Caviar. Nice colt, think they should wait for the July Cup with him because its a better sire's race.
Sepoy. Not a fan, and proved my thoughts of him being overrated along with Helmet when finish unplaced in Dubai. Was last year's Golden Slipper winner, don't think he has a chance in Hades in England likewise Helmet.
Temple of Boom. Good horse who won a weak Group 1 recently in Sydney. I'd like to see him travel to the USA for the Breeders Cup Turf Sprint as well.
SINGAPORE
Rocket Man from Singapore won't be there because he hurt his ligament again and is out for a couple of months. We probably won't see him until November for the International Sprint Trial in Hong Kong leading into the International Sprint.
AUSTRALIA
Ortensia will most likely show up, but as said before she was about 3 rungs below the best we have in Australia in her prime. A weak Group 1 race in Perth was her best effort back home.
Foxwedge is looking at going. A good colt, but did lack any give in his run behind Black Caviar. Nice colt, think they should wait for the July Cup with him because its a better sire's race.
Sepoy. Not a fan, and proved my thoughts of him being overrated along with Helmet when finish unplaced in Dubai. Was last year's Golden Slipper winner, don't think he has a chance in Hades in England likewise Helmet.
Temple of Boom. Good horse who won a weak Group 1 recently in Sydney. I'd like to see him travel to the USA for the Breeders Cup Turf Sprint as well.
I don't understand people's issue here. Steve is suggesting thinking outside the box, to look for value against a horse who will be odds on in conditions that she is unused to - what is wrong with that?
I bet that most of the people responding to him haven't even heard of the horses he is listing, hence how can they make the comparisons he is?
Long live Overdose, eh?
I bet that most of the people responding to him haven't even heard of the horses he is listing, hence how can they make the comparisons he is?
Long live Overdose, eh?
Harbinger
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He hasn't run over 10f yet!
EC1
On a break
you are saying Overdose was deemed the same level as BC?
no one ever said Overdose was the best we've seen..Overdose won the Abbaye..on that day was a decent horse..and the form shown against 90/100 horses showed was a decent sprinter
can't see the comparison mesen..except you seemed to be obsessed with mentioning overdose
Overdose DIDN'T win the Abbaye, that race was voided after 100 yards or so.
I am simply saying people need to stop having a go at SteveM for thinking outside the box in suggesting BC may not be a 1/10 shot, and that who knows, there may be value in opposing her.
I am simply saying people need to stop having a go at SteveM for thinking outside the box in suggesting BC may not be a 1/10 shot, and that who knows, there may be value in opposing her.
EC1
On a break
Overdose showed was quite good enough to win it
Steve ain't thinking outside any box imo..he's clutching at straws at owt in double figure odds
at end of day..once you have spent weeks trying to find one to beat her out of desperation maybe its time to not bother with a bet and just enjoy watching her..she just might win
you can take on any odds on shots each day at Hexham, Market Rasen etc and have a good chance of success..why bother just picking this particular race out which looks a pointless waste of energy trying to find one
in fact..if you must..just blindly back the next 3 in teh market..job done..takes just a few seconds to decide it
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EC1
On a break
they just showed that win last week..take a look at the action of BC compared with the others..their legs are hitting the ground twice as quick as hers..she has a stride very similar to Frankel..an effortless lope..never came out of a canter
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Hamm, the price may be skinny and I'm not going to back her but SteveM or anyone else has yet to actually put up a selection against her. Mostly because there is no sensible form pick. If she was trained in the UK she'd be 1/4. Nobody is having a go, we're just stating the obvious!!