Bloodstock News 2010

DT you (along with Venusian) were more than happy to tell me I was plain wrong earlier in this topic which is why I asked you to give actual examples, rather than the extremely vague references you were making. If you want to believe that means I think you are 'fake' you certainly can read a lot of innuendo from nothing and you vastly overreacted. If you care to look back, I said you could be breeding Group winners for all I know but I believe if you want to have credibility when stating facts about breeding, it might be better to state your track record. As previously said, I never, ever stop learning about this game and am always open to other's experiences and opinions - my success is extemely moderate from limited oportunities so there's always room to take on board other folk's opinions, plus it's great to swap experiences too.

If you want to remain anonymous that is of course your privilege and I am glad you are posting again as there's no point in having a hissy fit and flouncing off just because someone else doesn't agree with you !

As to my views on ROCK OF GIBRALTAR - yes I have seen him and my opinon still holds. I am sure you are right about his stock being fragile, but that wasn't what I was talking about if you read what I said - it was his attitude I was talking about. And your point would have been far better made if it had been made simply and without pettiness.
 
Are Rock of Gibraltar's offspring generally smaller than average?

I remember seeing Eagle Mountain and Yellowstone as 3yo colts and thinking that they were on the small side.
 
Sheikh said:
Find it hard to believe ROG is 16hh.....but I 've been wrong (plenty) before.

QUOTE]

I would agree with that - having seen him in the flesh during his 3 year career, I thought he was 'small', and in my opinion, to look at unimpressive. The picture Jinnyj has posted flatters him from my memory of him.
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Good winner for first Season ,Kodiac.
Sweet Cecily won what looked a hot maiden at Newmarket by 6 lenghts. I used to have the half sister :(........I need a drink.
 
Ahh... yup, been there, done that and got the Tshirt.... mine was PRINCESS TATEUM - we sold WALNUT LADY for £500 to Bill Turner and sold her at the sales. He won a seller with WL and R. Collet bought her. WL went black type in France and her progeny have sold very well.... Don't know what PT has done.
 
jinnyj said:
Here is a pic of him.

http://www.coolmore.com/stallions-view.php?list=ireland&id=18

Standing 16hh he is IMO "not overly big" - he is strong. He this pic he isn't very plain but neither is he stunningly pretty. Good quarters and shoulders which is to be expected. He has a good strong second thigh (desirable) - if I was being picky I'd say he is a fraction tied in below the knee and a bit heavy topped but then he has let down into stallion-mode.
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I follow NH more than the Flat but I find the breeding aspect of the Flat fascinating and this thread has been a font of knowledge!
I am writing this in complete ignorance though so please forgive me if these are really obvious questions.


Can I ask (I am no horseman either sadly):
what is 'tied in' at the knee and how is it a 'bad thing' as it were?

Is 'heavy-topped' what I think it is - a body that looks disproportionately
large?
 
Anyone any thoughts on Subtle Power as a sire of jumpers?

Done well with his first major horse - Lie Forrit though not much else under rules and siring point winners in Ireland this past season, decent enough on the track winning at Royal Ascot in the King Edward VII and also in G2 company at Gulfstream Park.
 
"Tied in" can be very subtle, Spaceegg, barely noticeable on some horses, while quite marked on others - including some famous and successful horses, so it's not necessarily an indicator of unsoundness, more a fault of conformation. When you look at a horse side-on, the cannon-bone, or shin, which is the long bone to the fetlock (or as US commentators call it, the ankle) should look straight at the front and the back. When it's tied-in, the bone at the back of the knee will angle slightly outwards towards the fetlock. In extreme cases, this gives the look as if the tendon at the back of leg has swollen or popped. The appearance is narrower near the knee joint, fuller at the top of the fetlock. Being 'tied-in' is not thought to be as much of a problem as 'back at the knee' where the front legs actually look slightly concave, as if someone had pushed them backwards and bowed them a little. This is sometimes a feature which young, weak horses can grow out of - not such good news if they don't, as the joints will be weak. The opposite is 'over at the knee' where the front legs bow out to the front. In ye olde days of NH, this was often taken as a sign of strong front legs (although you'll also see it in horses worked too young and too hard - especially pulling carts in certain countries). But in a fit, strong horse it's no problem and you do rarely get leg probs with horses which are a bit over at the knee.

Heavy-topped - you've got it! Big, thickish necks and chubsy bodies over rather fine or even gangly legs. As you say, the horse looks disproportionately heavy, as against just a 'big' horse, where the weight looks well-distributed and in proportion.

I love the forums - I continue to learn all the time, as horsey stuff keeps evolving, whether it's in breeding, equine health and fitness, or ways to train them.
 
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Ask away any time, Space - there are lots of knowledgeable souls on here, far more erudite than me, so never be shy to pose a question. Now you can have loads of fun knee-spotting in the parade rings!
 
Wasn't there a horse with a really dodgy looking front leg that won the Pardubice?

I'm sure it was twisted or something, a few years back though!
 
There are quite a few who should be called Diogenes, but I don't know enough about the Velka P to know, Aldaniti - as our historian, I bet you'll find out, though! Most recently spectacular was ATTRACTION's terribly pronated knees, although she was so darn smart at compensating for her dodgy front. Her near (left) fore was worst, so she ran pretty much all her races leading with the off (right), the lesser of the two evils. When she was asked for a flat-out effort, she changed to a few strides on the poorer leg, to rest the good one, then a final burst on the better. She also mastered the 'fake flying change' - instead of changing leads, she'd often do a little skip as if she was going to change lead legs, but having done her little jump into the air, she'd continue leading on the right leg, having given it a nano-second's rest in mid-air. She was also singularly plain, so jokily mis-named, poor darling. But who wouldn't have wanted her, wonky legs or not?
 
That took some finding! I remember watching some doc on sky showing the history of the race

The horses name was Korok & he won the pardubice three times 69.71,72

If you look at the link there are two photo's of him the first being held & you can clearly see how bad his front leg is, its actually twisted

http://www.radio.cz/fr/article/124290
 
Well done, Miss Marple! Yes, that's quite a seriously-turned leg, isn't it? But just shows how, if the horse carries the right level of fitness, even that can be spectacularly overcome. The horse looks lithe and wiry, rather like the marvellous REGISTANA and even ATTRACTION herself - if horses are on the heavy side, their malformed limbs are more likely to not bear up, or they suffer other problems by favouring their 'better' side, like people with dodgy knees or hips - you end up throwing out your spine or pelvis by compensating over time for the problem area.
 
I think he was an entire & went on to sire another winner, can't remember the name though,

He lived to 22yrs & was only put down due to an injury sustained in his paddock
 
Marvellous - just shows that not all deformities signal unsoundness or inability to compete. They wouldn't win show classes, but that's not what they have to do. Many thanks for that, Aldaniti.
 
Sorry I lied it was his grandson (Dam side) rather than his son!

Peruan went on to win it three times aswell! 98'99'01
 
I wonder if he passed on his twirly legs to anyone? It's great to see how some of these horses pass on their winning ways, whether at first or second remove. The Velka demands not just stamina but athleticism, rather in the same way that an event horse has to be agile and have a good eye over different types of obstacles. Of course, REGISTANA was nailed on to win the Cheltenham X-Country a few years ago, when jockey Peter Gehm, the German rider who'd won the VP on her previously, went the wrong side of some rails and was disqualified. He was later tragically left quadraplegic after a work-riding fall at Christian von der Recke's gallops, just a few months after his last win aboard the mare in the VP. He recovered to a degree of being able to assist at the stables, but I heard took the injury very badly psychologically, poor guy. So many wonderful ups, and then one massive downer.
 
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The Galileo 1-2 in the Irish Derby has given Galileo a healthy advantage in the leading sires table - hard to see him being caught now when at the start of the season Montjeu looked a big threat.
 
Motivator stood at the Royal Stud in Sandringham, so perhaps there but I'd imagine there will be an offer too good to refuse from Darley that could see him end up there. Only speculation though.
 
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