BNP on Question Time

Because as i said, the town has changed dramatically within the last 30 years and its pretty obvious that that is down to heavy immigration to that particular area...which is what this thread has moved onto

Why that has to be pointed out, i dont know...
 
According to Andrew Neather in The Spectator, "Labour encouraged mass immigration to help socially engineer a “multicultural” country."

I think that is the point here Gareth. It's only of 'note' because over the last 12 years not only have the British goverment had an open door policy to immigration, but British people who have resided here way before this mob took office have directly seen the impact on the ground.

Therefore, for someone to make an observation that the white population is dwindling in some areas, in the context of this debate, is quite a fair one I think.
 
clivex said:
Because as i said, the town has changed dramatically within the last 30 years and its pretty obvious that that is down to heavy immigration to that particular area...which is what this thread has moved onto

Why that has to be pointed out, i dont know...
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It's "pretty obvious" to you because of the colour of people, not their actual nationality?
 
Complete rubbish

Their citizenship is not proof of their original nationality and the age profile of a large proportion of the population would confirm that. Also (like Barking with the recent influx of africans) its is clear that much of the population of hounslow is not second generation from the longer term immigrant communities such as black carribean and ugandan asian say.
 
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clivex said:
Complete rubbish

Their citizenship is not proof of their original nationality and the age profile of a large proportion of the population would confirm that. Also (like Barking with the recent influx of africans) its is clear that much of the population of hounslow is not second generation from the longer term immigrant communities such as black carribean and ugandan asian say.
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Now you bring age profile and other criteria into your argument. Your initial point was based solely on colour, which made no sense given some of your other points about Polish and Czech immigrants, the majority of whom are white.
 
That is the usual stupid left racism card

The eastern european immigration has been mentioned throughout this thread. I do not recall anyone makin a distinction between that and immigration from asia say. no doubt many white europeans will become british citizens in time but they were still immigrants
 
This is a stupid argument poisoning what has been an interesting thread. No one who knows Hounslow or other similar areas would have any doubt that the immigrant population there is substantial. Realtively cheap housing and a highish cheap rental sector (as well as high level of council housing) are factors as well as the location near to the airport with its demand for cheap unskilled labour. If Barking has received thousands of africans over the past five years (as it has) is anyone really going to argue that they "could be british"
 
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I used the term 'British' because that to me is the importance, Gareth. It could be people of any colour or ethnicity, but I don't think i'm being racist by saying the majority of people living in this country are caucasian; therefore if someone makes a point about caucasian people being outnumbered in certain area's, then you surely have to take that as an indication that parts of the country have at a very minumum changed demographically greatly over the last few years.


It seems the only time people want to mention white people in all of this is when they're talking about who votes for the BNP.

I rest my case, your honor.
 
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The only measure of Hounslow's immigrant population that you provided in your initial post on the subject was your anecdotal estimate of how white it was. Good thing that I called you on it so that you could provide further reasons, lest anyone get the wrong idea about what you meant...
 
martin said:
I used the term 'British' because that to me is the importance, Gareth. It could be people of any colour or ethnicity, but I don't think i'm being racist by saying the majority of people living in this country are caucasian
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Certainly not.

therefore if someone makes a point about caucasian people being outnumbered in certain area's, then you surely have to take that as an indication that parts of the country have at a very minumum changed demographically greatly over the last few years.
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Not necessarily, since vague phrases such as "certain areas" are pretty meaningless and, in any case, non-white immigration is hardly a new phenomenon in Britain, is it?
 
Gareth: you've answered your own question. "Skills we want should be welcomed... " However, we're discussing immigration, not seasonal influxes of farm and seafood croppers and for holiday-based jobs such as seaside hotel waiters. We have thousands of able-bodied slobs on the dole in the UK, perfectly capable of getting off their arses, turning off their remotes, switching off the mobis and setting aside their pizzas and cheap lagers, and working. That is, doing any work that needs to be done. Once the UK has mobilised its third-generational parasites, then it can look at letting in both skilled and - if it really must - unskilled labour, but on a contractual basis, as many other countries do. You may need 5,000 labourers with bridge-building experience, for example, for a specific project. You don't need them for more than three years, so you don't need their attendant 20,000 family members joining them to batten onto overstretched hospitals, schools, housing, roads, etc. for what could be eternity.

It probably offends you, but there are loads of countries which do not allow unbridled and unwanted immigration (which you seem to have confused with short-term workers). Decades ago, Canada demanded $100,000 paid into one of their banks and a certified skills set which met its national list of vacancies. I believe that Australia has a similar type of policy, South Africa used to have if it doesn't now, and you won't even be allowed to be an immigrant by many countries - you're contract only, paid well, and then you leave at 60 or 65 or whenever your project comes to an end. Many Middle Eastern countries operate thus, because they don't want to be saddled with hefty long-term care and pension payments when you're too old to work. And believe me, you only come in to work at the jobs they want you to - whether it's as a housemaid, chauffeur, aircon engineer or construction specialist. You don't just fly in on spec and hope that at some point, without savings, and with a very dodgy education and two years of bricklaying, that they'll snap you up as an immigrant. The UK would be sensible to provide contractual work only for such people, so that when their projects finish or their tenure is no longer required, they go home, having been well-treated and well paid.
 
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For a start it is not "anecdotal" I grew up within a few miles of the town and know it very well.

Anyone can draw their wn conclusions. the arguments have been clear throughout the thread
 
Not necessarily, since vague phrases such as "certain areas" are pretty meaningless and, in any case, non-white immigration is hardly a new phenomenon in Britain, is it?
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FFS I have already drawn the distinction between Southall and Brfixton say and other areas such as Barking and housnlow
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Good points Krizon. It is the failure to operate such restrictions that is an issue for many as is the huge out of control and unchecked overseas "student" inflow
 
Gareth Flynn said:
non-white immigration is hardly a new phenomenon in Britain, is it?
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I don't actually think the colour of someone's skin should be a factor in immigration as you imply. I'd be more interested (as i'm sure most British people are) in occurances such as people not being able to speak English etc, taking council houses from under the noses of people who've been waiting longer than them, or basically becoming criminals the minute they come in the country.

I hear of Somali gangs now roaming London. I take it these folks aren't all third generational dole queue merchants, some must have come through U.K borders to cause havoc? The colour of their skin is irrelevent, the fact they may have immigrated here from Somalia isn't.

I don't think all demographic change is a bad thing, the only reason I got involved in this thread is because of your "why should a decline in the white population be noted" comment, which I thought was a bit of a piss take given this thread is about the rise of the BNP.
 
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clivex said:
For a start it is not "anecdotal" I grew up within a few miles of the town and know it very well.
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Your 20% figure is clearly based on casual observations rather than any hard data. Which is fine, and I've no reason to believe you're exaggerating, but it's still anecdotal!
 
Gareth - why, tell me why, you need I-M-M-I-G-R-A-T-I-O-N to help the UK's economy along? You just don't! You need contract workers. You're either refusing to consider this concept, or you're deciding to play Devil's Advocate - either way, that's tiresome and I can't be bothered to be more explicit.

I'm not sure that you understand what immigrants are. They are people who leave everything behind and go to another country - like loads of Brits did, as "£10 Poms" to Australia, to New Zealand, and South Africa - fully intending to settle. They didn't go out with the view that, having fully cut their ties with their homeland, they'd be back in two or three years with a pocketful of dosh, and re-settle back in the UK. It's what my parents did, and my cousins' - they went to Africa expecting to live out their lives there, buying property, keeping their jobs long enough to draw pensions, etc. They expected their children (like me) to be educated there and to get a job and live forever in the country of their choice - not the UK. That's immigration.

You do not, therefore, need immigrants to work on short-term projects such as construction, where there is a scheduled programme of work towards a completion date. You definitely don't need immigrants to pick cabbages and cockles, harvest hops, and wait tables in a Whitby cafe which closes at the end of September every year. Those are seasonal workers.

The "extra" workers you're talking about - er, what, exactly, are you talking about? What jobs are they doing? What skills do they bring? How long do the projects last they'd be working on? Can't you simply use contract workers? Yes, every now and then, a country has a little boom in some area or another, and needs a short-term to long-term influx of skills. It doesn't mean they need the possessor of those skills until they drop dead, though.

Crikey Moses - I have friends who worked for three years on projects in the USA - they weren't immigrants. They may well have rented out their own UK homes, or given up the ones they'd rented, but there's no way they were immigrants - they were just skilled, contract workers. The Middle East is full of them - practically everyone who isn't a country's national is on contract, Gareth. That these extend over years, even decades, is by-the-by. They're not granted immigrant status, they can't even take out residency or nationality if they want to!

(To be resumed... or not. Right now, I've seen the time and need my ugly sleep for Lingfield tomorrow. Cheerio for now!)
 
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martin said:
I hear of Somali gangs now roaming London. I take it these folks aren't all third generational dole queue merchants, some must have come through U.K borders to cause havoc? The colour of their skin is irrelevent, the fact they may have immigrated here from Somalia isn't.
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Ignoring the Daily Mail-esque spectre of them "roaming", here's a story: There was a Somali girl working with us earlier this year, doing temp work to help herself through Uni. I say "Somali", but she's been in Britain since she was a baby after her parents came over during the Civil War there in the early 90s and has never been back. Anyway, she pointed out to me that there's actually quite a bit of emnity between Somalis who have been in Britain since then, and those that have come in the last few years - the problem being that such stories of "Somali gangs roaming London" has made them a target for all sorts of crap that they never had to put up with before. A tiny minority has led an already small minority to be broadly considered dangerous, untrustworthy, violent and criminal. It's sad.

"why should a decline in the white population be noted" comment, which I thought was a bit of a piss take given this thread is about the rise of the BNP.
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Firstly, you've misquoted me (come on, it's not that hard to check), and secondly, given that one the BNP's core arguments is that to be British you must be white, it seems perfectly germane to challenge that notion when it rears its head in this very thread.
 
Krizon, you're right, we have different ideas of what constitutes an immigrant. Yours is so narrow as to render it effectively meaningless in the context of Britain today.

The ladies who clean my office block aren't seasonal workers. They're not working on fixed-term projects. Did they leave everything behind them when they came here? Yes. Will they be here forever? They don't even know that. When people moan about immigrants, are they talking about people like them - unskilled, weak English, living in areas where there's lots of other people in the same situation? You bet they are. Is the fact that they're hard workers who are willing to do a menial job at a price that doesn't interest too many in the domestic workforce ignored when a handy scapegoat is required? Of course.
 
I agree it's sad that some people like the lady you mention has been targeted because of other somalians behaviour, and I do not condone that.

I assure you though I did not (or am pretty sure I did not) hear about the Somalian gangs from someone who reads the Daily Mail. I heard it from an old school mate who's not really interested in politics; how they heard it I don't know, probably on the news.

You said (making a conscious effort to quote you exactly!) "there's actually quite a bit of emnity between Somalis who have been in Britain since then, and those that have come in the last few years", which implies some recent somalian immigrants are less than amenable? but then you say this is all a myth perpetuated by right wing Daily Mail readers?

Which is it Gareth?
 
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martin said:
You said (making a conscious effort to quote you exactly!) "there's actually quite a bit of emnity between Somalis who have been in Britain since then, and those that have come in the last few years", which implies some recent somalian immigrants are less than amenable? but then you say this is all a myth perpetuated by right wing Daily Mail readers?

Which is it Gareth?
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I said nothing of the sort. :lol:

This story from back in 2005 is a good example:

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/crimenews/659106.gang_is_giving_somalians_a_bad_name/
 
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