BNP on Question Time

I thought that Jack Straw's communication was generally poor, I was never quite sure who he was addressing, but I loved the way his has anger and contempt for Griffin was barely concealed. I thought Warsi was pretty good, which seems contrary to opinion, she was smart, confident and at times cutting. I liked her. Although she perhaps let herself down a bit on the Gately stuff.

Griffin's veneer looked paper thin.
 
Total farce.

Of course Nick Griffin has a right to complain; if he's invited on the programme should he not expect a meaningful debate about real issues, rather than nonsensical ranting? As somewhat of an aside, does anyone know what they were meant to be debating last night? If the premise of the programme was a debate on the legitimacy of the BNP and its shady past, then of course my last sentence is utter rubbish.

Griffin happy to absorb the abuse I'm sure, given that it gives him a perfect opportunity to peddle the "victim of the over-zealous hard line leftists" line.
 
I thought that Jack Straw's communication was generally poor, I was never quite sure who he was addressing, but I loved the way his has anger and contempt for Griffin was barely concealed. I thought Warsi was pretty good, which seems contrary to opinion, she was smart, confident and at times cutting. I liked her. Although she perhaps let herself down a bit on the Gately stuff.

Griffin's veneer looked paper thin.

A good summary. Particularly agree about Straw; he seemed like a man there to talk about the BNP and absolutely nothing else.

Even the question on inmigration was set within a BNP framework (was to do with Labour's policy as a potential reason for BNP support).

The American 'historian' (or whatever she was) came across as patronizing and generally an unnecessary member of the panel I thought.
 
I thought the programme was a farce.The man himself is pathetic however simply attacking him did not do anything towards addressing the basic problem which is for what reason are people voting for such a man and what he is spouting.

Before giving my view let me declare my stance on immigration and race. I grew up in the East End, an area reknowned for being one of the first places where immigrants would settle in the UK when they have arrived over the centuries. Many races and even more cultures and generally not a problem. I remember my father hitting me for having one of my black friends knock on our door but that type of ignorance was rare. Religion was never a problem either. In my teens and early twenties I fought physically and politically against thugs who attacked either blacks or asians. I continued to do so even after I was given a severe beating by a gang of black guys.
Nowadays I feel full of contradictions. On one level it gives me a warm feeling to see so many different tpes of people getting on, mixing and treating each other simply as decent human beings as one generally sees in many parts of London. Wow! There is a reason to believe we can all coexist peacefully.
On the other hand there are places in London and throughout the UK where I feel uncomfortable and vulnerable simply because I am white. I am also aware of the growing problem that large scale immigration can cause particularly when in workimg class areas the numbers overwhelm the "system". The system appears to many to favour the immigrants and indeed a great deal is done to make sure that that they are fully aware of all the rights and benefits they can obtain. In these areas the resources get spread too thinly and even to a fair minded individual it seems that too often the long term inhabitant is put at the back of the queue. Notice I said inhabitant, I mean all colours and creeds that have sought to be a part of one broad community.
In Romford ,Essex a recently built hugely expensive hospital has been ranked the worst in the UK. This place has all the latest technology and facilities however the costs of handling the vast increase in patients many recently arrived in the UK, with interpreters, female only nurses and doctors for many, experts in diseases all but eradicated in the UK together with the lack of ability for (or perhaps fear of ) disciplining a multi racial workforce means that they cannot afford the people qualified to use the equipment. The upshot is that many of the old people are afraid to be treated there and it has earned several new names such as ' the point', short for the point of no return.
Small wonder that the local people feel they have a grievance but who listens. Nobody!!! Some Labour councillors and some Labour MPs in the area have been slapped down when they have tried to raise the issue to a national level. Therefore left without a voice people are even prepared to vote for someone they know is a buffoon but he at least is at raising the issue. Warsi, if she was the Asian conservative, spoke to the issue but noone else made any constructive comments.
By their failure and their concentration on attacking someone perfectly capable of proving himself to be a pathetic without any help from others they may well have generated more support for him. Its perverse but people need a voice when the feel,rightly or wrongly, under attack. Far better to provide them with a sensible channel than force them to support nutters or go to the next level which is violent action.
 
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Without wishing to rate any of the participants in the BNP bashing contest, Griffin is representing a percentage of the electorate that were motivated enough to come out and vote against the other mainstream parties represented on the panel.

The worst of the lot (ok, so I've rated one) was the one with a self-proclaimed 30 years representing and serving the Great British Public. And yet, with all this experience in the field, he still cannot answer a straight question with a straight answer.

If you consider Blair's last election win was off the back of a lower number of voters than Kinnock's last failure, add on the perceived corruption of MPs expenses (actually it was their collective failure to vote themselves a wage reflective of their responsibilities) and then look at the voter turnout in the subsequent European elections, the BNP to get a seat or two in Brussels was an easier operation than Simon Cowell getting an X-Factor winner a Christmas number 1.

There are a couple of solutions that could immediately address the situation (i.e. negating the progress of the BNP). Either our establishment of MPs start relating to and communicating at a level to those whom they represent will understand, or introduce compulsary voting.
 
Four excellent posts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8323638.stm

Hain is at it again.Not how he states his "anger" at the supposed rise in BNP support. Who the hell is he to dictate who the electorate should or shouldnt listen to? Was there anything that Griffin said on thursday that was against the law?

Incredible arrogance. Why isnt Brown shutting him up?

The biggest vote winner for the BNP is established politicians treating the public with contempt. Its not as if they are exactly held in high esteem at the present time is it?
 
Hain is typical of this generation of the political class. They actually see themselves as a part of the solution, when in fact, they are a part of the problem.

They don't even have the nous just to sit on their hands for ten minutes, and watch a cretin like Griffin do their job for them. They just have to play the "Nazi" card. I mean...it's just such a lowest-common-denominator tactic - bereft of all subtlety.

As far as today's politicians are concerned, it's seems it's more important to posture about the threat of the BNP, than to think laterally, and engage in a systemic destruction of BNP values and policies. Resorting to cries of "Nazi" and pointing a finger at Griffin just plays to his strengths. Even my cutlery-drawer knows that. Yet our political classes don't seem able to grasp this simple fact? For all their degrees and doctorates, most of them really are as thick as pig-shit.

If it was up to me, I would sign everything over to Vince Cable, to do whatever the fuck he pleases......and retain Norman Baker to serve cocktails and tell ripping yarns at State funtions.

I would then round-up the rest of Westminster and feed them through a woodchipper.
 
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I would support a referendum on the woodchipper proposal, Grasshopper. But beware Saint Vincent is no great saviour. On examination his veneer is just a little thicker than that of the others.

Wtf happened to the traditional driven MP, determined to fight for his constituents and country.It's all about image and gaining or retaining position. Let's make spin doctors (or whatever they are now called in Labour that has ,of course, abolished spin) the first group for the chipper.
 
Thought Griffin was out of his depth but the hostility of panel and audience could gain him a certain amount of sympathy.
 
A million people voted for the BNP, probably mostly from what are still called working-class areas, where the reality is stronger than the perception that they are getting shafted by a government (strangely, what once was a left-leaning one, but is now just more uni-educated suits) which is not hearing its voice. There should be action, not just statistics, over unchecked and reckless immigration, over the strong possibilities of nepotism ensuring that 'certain' people get into the country willy-nilly, and there should be action, not just 'concerns' over issues such as a government only too anxious to go fight other people's wars on the backs of lies and falsehoods, which are perpetuated today. For example, there's no risk to Britain from the disparate and usually self-savaging tribes which loosely comprise 'the Taliban', while Al-Queda does have internal cells and its wilder mullahs have been allowed to preach whatever hatred they wanted, under the complacent nonsense that they were 'being watched'. If it's by the type of watchers who observed a young Brazilian and decided he was an Asian terrorist, then God help us.

The thing is, the BNP, for all of its underlying xeno-, homo-, and virtually any other phobia, is the only party which has heard a large swathe of the British population and responded with messages which are not all entirely mad. Of course there should be a limit to unbridled immigration - skills we want should be welcomed, what we don't need shouldn't. Of course incomers should be able to provide for themselves and their families for at least a couple of years while they establish themselves - not go with their begging-cup straight to the nearest benefits office. Other countries demand they bring the right skills and enough money on which to start up - we don't. Of course the Home Office shouldn't lose thousands of so-called asylum seekers, millions of national identity programmes, and there shouldn't be tens of thousands of visa overstayers and illegal workers in the country. But there is little real action in response to any of the major governmental or civil service balls-ups which have occurred during Labour's endless governance. The answer seems to be to wait until someone reluctantly resigns, if it happens at all.

People are fed up with cronyism, with jobs for the boys at all levels of civil service - within local government, at council level, and so on, and they're sick to death of a country obsessed with absurd and pointless 'quotas' based on racial or sexual identity, too. But only the BNP has seriously rounded on these absurdities - although seen through their glowing red eyes of a hatred of non-straights and non-whites, it's true - and said that enough's enough. Merit should win the job, not because you're the transgender cousin of a mixed-race Buddhist, and therefore help tick three boxes of 'equality' in one position.

If nobody gets to grips with what ails the UK soon, it's very likely that the BNP will continue to win votes - not because all of the voters are neo-Fascists, but because they feel that it's the only party who isn't treating their concerns as if they are. It's time for all other parties, from the largest to the tiniest, to wake up.
 
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One rule for us one rule for them,

A Muslim girl who worked with me told us on numerous occasions that she would be killed by her father if she went out with a white boy....nice:)
Not racism...very tolerant culture??
That is a perfect example why go to a country to settle and bring your baggage with you, when 37 difrent langwidges are spoken in your local schoool don't tell me that English children are not held back, I nlive in London and we are full, if you love them so much have come live next door to you, and you will soon change your mind:lol:
 
Thought Griffin was out of his depth but the hostility of panel and audience could gain him a certain amount of sympathy.
Luke I agree that twat calling him dick then smerking was well out of order trust me and that look like a cross section of people around the bush the main people are Irish and West Indian whare were they, all the people outside were white and the studio auidience were predomentmently Ashern- did it seem like a normal question time ...........?:confused:
 
Is there any such thing?
The programme and agenda, including the questions are all set up beforehand, very similar to "A Question Of Sport" actually! :D
 
Andy,
you comment that those that speak up for Asians and others might not be so happy having them living next door.
When I got married and bought my first house a Ugandan Asian family moved in next door. A few days later my car would not start in the morning, I spent 10 mins or so fiddling about to no effect when my new neighbour appeared in pristine overalls and carrying two large toolboxes. It took him 5 mins to complete a temporary fix and the following weekend he spent several hours giving the car an overhaul. He would not accept any payment neither in cash nor in an offerfor a meal in a local restaurant. His wife did not speak English and was very timid. My wife began to negotiate on behalf of the lady in the local shops and with tradesmen and gradually brought her out of her shell. We had the privelege of being invited to the wedding of her sister at which we were treated as honoured guests.

They were bloody good people and we were fortunate to have them as neighbours and friends. So please cut the crap. I recognise that there is a problem to be addressed and have probably done a lot more than you to try and get that problem addressed. It is not a problem of the colour of people's skins it is a problem of resources and attitudes.

If you really believe the problem needs resolution why not try and do something positive about it.
 
For example, there's no risk to Britain from the disparate and usually self-savaging tribes which loosely comprise 'the Taliban',

Largely a goo dpost Krizon but wouldnt agree with that whilst the Taleban were giving AQ shelter and a base. Who knows what would have happened if no action had been taken? Frankly it wasnt a risk worth taking

Andy...i know Hounslow very well. Lets be honest, its changed dramatically in the last 30 years and wlaking around the high st and treaty centre would suggest the white population is less than 20%. But its also a thriving place with a nice buzz and atmosphere.I like it there

But the other side of the coin is that unbridled immigration is now affecting not just the working class white population. In some firms where i have been working lately, Polish and czech accountants are taking work which would prveiously have been given to younger finance people looking for experience. Its very short sighted of course and creates bad feeling, but accountants being accountants, they are looking at the short term bottom line and little else....
 
Yes, you have a point there about the Taliban, of course, Clive. To give fair dues, thanks to our and allied troops' efforts they've now moved themselves largely to Waziristan and the Swat Valley, where the Pakistani forces are, at last, moving strongly against them there.

I've no desire to see the UK 'whitened' by any means at all - we can see the ghastly results in African countries where the independent governments have tried to re-Africanize, regardless of the merits of the job holders and farmers. (In fact, thousands of white South African farmers are being offered 30-year tenures by the Congo, since that country has recognised they bring much-needed skills and are losing their farms to repossessions based solely on the colour of their skin, regardless of how many generations they go back.) Trying to run a country based on national identity is absurd - we're all 'mixed race' if we go back far enough, after all - very few of us would have 'pure' racial lines through the Gaels or the Celts alone, thanks to this island's various invaders.
 
Andy,
you comment that those that speak up for Asians and others might not be so happy having them living next door.
When I got married and bought my first house a Ugandan Asian family moved in next door. A few days later my car would not start in the morning, I spent 10 mins or so fiddling about to no effect when my new neighbour appeared in pristine overalls and carrying two large toolboxes. It took him 5 mins to complete a temporary fix and the following weekend he spent several hours giving the car an overhaul. He would not accept any payment neither in cash nor in an offerfor a meal in a local restaurant. His wife did not speak English and was very timid. My wife began to negotiate on behalf of the lady in the local shops and with tradesmen and gradually brought her out of her shell. We had the privelege of being invited to the wedding of her sister at which we were treated as honoured guests.

They were bloody good people and we were fortunate to have them as neighbours and friends. So please cut the crap. I recognise that there is a problem to be addressed and have probably done a lot more than you to try and get that problem addressed. It is not a problem of the colour of people's skins it is a problem of resources and attitudes.

If you really believe the problem needs resolution why not try and do something positive about it.

Well said, TS.
 
Good post again Krizon. This agreeing with you will ahve to stop :)

And another thought....

Although its rarely a straightforward like for like, but i would feel aggreived if a transient or new arrived South african (and there a loads of them in sw london.....how and why?) or Australian took a position at the expense of a briton of asian origin. Seen it happen too....
 
Its very short sighted of course and creates bad feeling, but accountants being accountants, they are looking at the short term bottom line and little else....
Sums up the last 30 years or so pretty succintly, I think, therein lies the problem that Industry and the whole Country has failed to grasp.
 
I thought Bonnie Greer summed it up perfectly in her column in the Times yesterday;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6888062.ece

Particularly this section...

"I have lived here for more than two decades and have had the privilege of voting in two general elections since becoming a citizen. But this election leaves me with a feeling of complete ennui. This is not only because of the MPs’ expenses scandal, which is an outrage, but the general insular nature of the Westminster village. There is a lack of the “will to live” right along the entire political spectrum.

The problems in the economy have opened the door to racism. Out-of-work people, people who have lost their homes, their pensions, their sense of self-respect, blame The Other.

There is a vacuum, a yawning one, and the poison that is the British National Party is the result. But we can pull back from the brink. The BBC, by allowing Nick Griffin on to its airwaves, has exercised the highest definition of public service: it has informed us all and done so in a public arena. It’s called democracy."


As a rule of thumb, the people who have a problem with immigration are generally the people who have problems or failings in their own lives; look for someone else to blame. The government has made much worse calls which directly affect people's day to day lives in other more important policy errors than immigration .
 
I dont agree with that at all. Taken to conclusion then you may as well have a completely open door policy to all countries and point the finger at the british population for complaining

Its pretty nasty to assume that those who have lost jobs have "failings in their own lives"

Those who gain most from immigration are business leaders who have a labour market which they can pick and chose from and as a result hold down wages

Im far more relaxed about immigration than some but there has to be controls

The problems in the economy have opened the door to racism. Out-of-work people, people who have lost their homes, their pensions, their sense of self-respect, blame The Other

Shes assuming that its only black and asian immigration which bothers the british. It isnt. And its wrong to assume that anyone that has lost everything because of immigration (say a plumber losing his job to a cheaper polish or african alterntative) is going to hate "the other" on the basis of their race.
 
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Andy...i know Hounslow very well. Lets be honest, its changed dramatically in the last 30 years and wlaking around the high st and treaty centre would suggest the white population is less than 20%.

Why would the size of the white population be of any note?

Edit: You're kind of proving the irrelevance of colour in the issue when you say:

i would feel aggreived if a transient or new arrived South african (and there a loads of them in sw london.....how and why?) or Australian took a position at the expense of a briton of asian origin. Seen it happen too....

(assuming you're making the distinctions between white immigrants and black or Asian British citizens)
 
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