Breeder's Cup Meeting

The Lasix thing is a load of balls for many reasons, not least that the only European trainer to win the Classic on traditional dirt never used it. It's not some sort of super drug.
 
Exactly Gareth, whats more (as I said before) it did not help them last year or the year before or the year before etc

The problem (and it is not a bad problem to have) is most of the Ballydoyle top horses have to win 3-4 Group 1's in a season to match the previous greats from the yard and to be comparible to the stallions already on the Coolmore roster. So it is hard for them to just take a mid season break by passing so many opportunities.

On a wider note, will alot of the Breeders Cup races be scrapped now that they are back on dirt? Cannot see many Europeans lining up for the Marathon etc next year.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
The Lasix thing is a load of balls for many reasons, not least that the only European trainer to win the Classic on traditional dirt never used it. It's not some sort of super drug.
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Absolutely. Lasix is a diuretic so is only really going to help a bad bleeder; even though a very high percentage of thoroughbreds do bleed to some extent during a race for the majority it is often such a small amount that it doesn't hinder them anyway. So if the horse isn't a bleeder, surely running it on Lasix can only be a bad idea? I know I wouldn't want to put a fit athlete on some strange drug that may have any type of side effects just for the sake of it.
 
I think the point made about the Ballydoyle tactics is spot on.. No idea what Murtagh was doing for most of the meeting. He even managed to squeeze out Beethoven on the first turn on Alfred Nobel!!! Beethoven would have finished a lot closer and is a horse to follow over 10f next season.
 
I wonder would they try Beethoven in the Kentucky Derby - obvious doubt about the dirt but he has loads of experience and they have loads of other options for the Classics over here.
 
He ran best of their juveniles and would definitely have been a lot closer if he had not been bumped on the first corner. The style of racing should suit as well as he needs a fast pace to show his best. Early tactical speed is clearly an issue though.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Absolutely. Lasix is a diuretic so is only really going to help a bad bleeder; even though a very high percentage of thoroughbreds do bleed to some extent during a race for the majority it is often such a small amount that it doesn't hinder them anyway. So if the horse isn't a bleeder, surely running it on Lasix can only be a bad idea? I know I wouldn't want to put a fit athlete on some strange drug that may have any type of side effects just for the sake of it.
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Agreed, if it ain't broke don't fix it as they say.

Does anyone know if MOI is a confirmed bleeder considering he was the only Ballydoyle runner administered Lasix.
 
Stoutey (alledgedy) works all of his horses on Lasix in the UK - just taking them off to race.
 
Imagine wrote:

Does anyone know if MOI is a confirmed bleeder considering he was the only Ballydoyle runner administered Lasix.
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In an interview with US reporters prior to the weekend AOB mentioned that Man of Iron had had a number of little colds throughout the season and that all of their other runners had always scoped cleanly.
 
Galileo said:
I wonder would they try Beethoven in the Kentucky Derby - obvious doubt about the dirt but he has loads of experience and they have loads of other options for the Classics over here.
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I'd fancy him - perfectly suited to the racing style, and I reckon he could have gone very close Saturday with a clear run - I really fancied him and bet accordingly :(
 
Nefertiti said:
Imagine wrote:



In an interview with US reporters prior to the weekend AOB mentioned that Man of Iron had had a number of little colds throughout the season and that all of their other runners had always scoped cleanly.
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Thank you :)
 
jinnyj said:
Stoutey (alledgedy) works all of his horses on Lasix in the UK - just taking them off to race.
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Very interesting indeed. There's a thin line between between legal and illegal use of drugs these days and big yards Vets are second only to the trainer.
 
Okay, I should've said first ride in the BC Classic, O Great Pedant - I'm well aware of his victory on MIDDAY, as I complimented the Little Thrasher on it a few posts back.
 
My internet was down over the weekend and so i've only just watched the race. Honestly can't see what all the fuss is about. Nice performance from the filly but she's no Zarkava.
 
So true - she's only won a million more than ZARKAVA (or GOLDIKOVA), and knocked out a straight 14 wins from 14 appearances. Rubbish, really, when you think about it.

I would just love to imagine how casual and sanguine you'd be if you owned her, Euro.
 
Goldikova much the better horse for me. She's beaten the colts several times now, and has much better form. Seeing her as 50-50 to stay in training next year (as a 5 year old) makes you think the connections of Sea the Stars made a real blunder.
 
I think this is not the right point of view. Aidan O'Brien had a 0-23 Rate from his runners in the last three years, and the most if not all run on lasix. This year the only horse with this drug won - accidentally. And is now sold. He was like Vale of York for Godolphin not announced as flag bearer for the races in Santa Anita. The other hopes have had hard european campaine's - never with the final target to run and win in america. The most of Aidan's horses looked awful in the morning, ran like they looked.
 
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krizon said:
So true - she's only won a million more than ZARKAVA (or GOLDIKOVA), and knocked out a straight 14 wins from 14 appearances. Rubbish, really, when you think about it.
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The prize money is irrelevent. All i'm saying is the way people were going on about it when I saw the video I was expecting some sort of Arazi type of magnificence and it wasn't there for me.

All she did was pick off horses who had gone too fast early doors - yer typical one-dimensional American racing in other words. The difference between Zenyatta and Sea the Stars would be that the latter could toy with the opposition like that off of an even pace.
 
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Had she had a good draw she would have won with lengths to spare....not sure what you could have expected from her draw and that position turning in.
 
Euronymous said:
The prize money is irrelevent. All i'm saying is the way people were going on about it when I saw the video I was expecting some sort of Arazi type of magnificence and it wasn't there for me.
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Half way round there was no way she could win. She is 17 hands and takes 1 stride to the others 2. That's why she doesn't look like Arazi when she's winning doesn't make her any less special or spectacular for me. In fact I put a few people off backing her during the day but when I saw her arrive onto the track I had to back her. Size and athleticism. A Rare combination in any sport.
 
But she never wins with lengths to spare - a textbook example of the '+' sign to be used for a horse. Could anyone say Zenyatta has ever hit over 127/128? Goldikova definitely has.
 
She was given 128+ RPR and I see no reason to question that. She barely had to be ridden out to leave a whole host of G1 performers toiling. Can't see why people would question her class. Sea the Stars was never spectacular either.

Arazi's performance is immense but it was against 2yo's wasn't it? These were the best horses around bar the best two in the world and she ambled past them. I thought it was a performance right out of the top drawer. Unfortunately I backed Rip just cos I wanted a european horse to win!!!
 
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