Breeder's Cup Meeting

well, we will get into the argument for sure, but far too hard and must have beaten the horse proper at least 20times, and still counting. even piggott at his most driven was gentle compared to that. and we are not talking about tabs on the should here, and on a horse that clearly had no chance of winning.

really put me off queally to be honest, and I have to admit I only just got "on" him.
 
I was watching Zenyatta pretty closely so did not really notice that . No excuse to think when in Rome I can get away with that.
 
I wasn't watching Queally in real time - watching the replay now, yes, he does whack TWICE OVER about 20 times. I'm not sure even the US jocks bashed them that much. Ryan employs about 5 stripes on CONDUIT, in contrast.
 
I'd like to backtrack to CONDUIT's race and give a helluva round of applause to PRESIOUS PASSION, whose sprint tactics over 12f just about did the trick - saw off everything else, in a most brave and sincere fashion. Seems to have been rather overlooked, and I want to redress that.

The other fabulous front-running - and this time winning - display came from CALIFORNIA FLAG, and by heck, the grey is some athlete! Beautiful action, looked to be thoroughly happy to be racing, and did it from gate to post. Just superb.
 
chroniclandlord said:
Galileo, do you reckon that they will retire both?
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I would imagine MCM will definitely retire (which is a shame as he is such a great big horse there is probably more improvement to come) but I would think alot will depend on Rip's feet. If they think his feet are up to it I think they would like to keep him going (a placing in the Classic would have seen him retired) but I am not sure he is the type to progress next year given the year he has had.
 
I don't think they can retire Rip after all the talk about how great he was. He needs to show it and he needs to have a season where his running and not his feet make the headlines before they retire him to stud. If of course his feet can be fixed.
 
Rips feet were heavily patched - not a good thing to have running on a tight traack and all weather surface. I spent Wednesday over at Hollywood Park at Neil Drysdales barn ( I am staying with his assistant & family). I spent the morning watching his horses train and discusssed alot of things like track and state of US racing. Neil felt tracks are badly maintained over here. They still treat them like the old style dirt and so its very shallow. As a result many horses get very jarred up. He also fears for the future of California racing. H Park will most probably go - it has been bought for development. And the attendence levels are dire. Wednesday at Santa Anita was like Wolves on a bad Monday! He said the only thing that will save it is the Casino slot machines being put in. I could see him quitting & going to Hong Kong or somewhere.
It saddens me hugely - these tracks are superb.
 
Sad news, sounds like they need to do something radical to get them back into the tracks. Is your everyday punter disheartened with the the whole thing. ' They're all juiced up machines so why bother ? ' They need more Zenyatta's...don't we all.
 
Thanks, jinny, for the insights. Poor RVW - makes you wonder how much longer he can take the strain of keeping fit with poorly plates, doesn't it? I wonder who, in his bloodline, he owes that frailty to? Very disappointing news about the tracks - no wonder the Yanks are saying the Pro-Ride's no safer than the old dirt, if they're not topping it enough or harrowing it properly to keep it fluffy. If they don't use it as it is intended, what can you do? Just out them and shame them, I guess. Sounds as if California almost has a death wish about its racing.
 
Can't imagine he's the type of stallion Magnier likes to stand with all his foot problems - he'd surely need to prove he can stand racing without all these problems.
 
Just catching up with last night's action. Goldikova was every bit as impressive as Zenyatta in my opinion.

I think you could keep RVW in training until he is ten and he wouldn't reach the level that he is talked about operating at. Even if he was below par last night his CV still shows that he gets beat when he comes up against class horses. A victory over Paco Boy looks like being his career highlight. Talk about damning with faint praise.
 
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Exactly - one race, one G3 win, one G1 win, then gimping off to stud. Yes, I'd love a horse which won me a quarter-million in just three starts, of course, and I'd love a lot of people to bring me their mares so I could make loads more moolah, but what does it say for the breed when there's the possibility - no, certainty - that Ripper may well sire equally tender-toed animals of the future? Everyone wants to breed to a prizewinner, but should they do it when they know the sires aren't sound?
 
A victory over Paco Boy looks like being his career highlight
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Surely the eclipse? Being the only horse to seriously worry STS? And a race thats worked out well on face of it (although some behind probably not at best)

That and Goodwood (what is wrong with beating PB so well ??) are the two best domestic performances (other than STS) of the season. Thats ok isnt it?
 
Retiring MCMstrikes me as bizarre - I could see him having as successful a 4 year old career as Duke of Marmelade.

RVW sounds like his feet have got the better of him - he surely is the one to retire.
 
I stopped off again at Hollywood Park this morning waiting for a lift over to Santa Anita for todays racing and while waiting met John Shireffs, trainer of Zenyatta. What a really nice guy - so down to earth considering the high he must be on (Can't see media lover Bob Baffert being quite so accomodating!). Anyway I chatted to him about the mare and he said she had come out of the race so well, she could run again today - bouncing and kicking. Apparently she will stay at the barn for another month, letting her down gradually before making her way to Kentucky. He was completely humbled by the reception she got - according to all sources here - one of the good guys!
 
Greg Wood doesn't spare O'Brien this morning..

Many of O'Brien's runners seem to be beaten before the first turn, and their habit of giving the rest of the field a three-length start is becoming an embarrassment. The Americans find it baffling. They know that O'Brien is a deep thinker who leaves nothing to chance, yet he cannot train his horses to leave a starting gate.
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Full article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/08/zenyatta-breeders-cup-santa-anita-rachel-alexandra

A real missed opportunity this year for Ballydoyle you feel.

Also, and this is a very general comment, but you would imagine they would need a better balance between horses suited to tracks over here (those by Danehill Dancer, Galileo and Montjeu) and those who seem to do well in America (Giants Causeway) if they are going to make a real impression in the Breeders Cup - the relative lack of Giants Causeway colts they have in comparison to Danehill Dancer's is a little surprising, but I wouldn't be surprised if Oratorio produced something for them in this area.
 
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Sheikh said:
footstepsinthesand
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Well aware of that one, but how many 2 year olds of FSITS did Magnier have in his team this year?

My point comes from reading a Bio of Robert Sangster, which is essentially a history of Coolmore, and it was fascinating to read about his approach to breeding and what (would hopefully) consitutute a good stallion.
 
Well aware of that one, but how many 2 year olds of FSITS did Magnier have in his team this year?
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Hard to know what goes on , but they do have the best vets. Duke of Marmalade was unsound before surgery , and One cool cat that we know about.
 
By David Ashforth7.26AM 9 NOV 2009
AIDAN O'BRIEN emerged disappointed but undeterred after a Breeders' Cup in which Ballydoyle's highest-profile runners, notably Rip Van Winkle, Mastercraftsman and Lillie Langtry, failed to add to the success of Man Of Iron in the opening race, the Marathon.
Ironically, Man Of Iron was the only O'Brien runner to be given Lasix, after a decision was taken to change the stable's medication policy and, as a general rule, not administer the anti-bleeding drug for Breeders' Cup races.
Medication is one of several issues that O'Brien indicated would be reviewed by Coolmore's training operation in an attempt to improve the stable's Breeders' Cup record, which has been disappointing.
Man Of Iron's victory broke a losing run of six years and 28 runners since High Chaparral dead-heated for the Turf in 2003, having won the race the previous year. O'Brien's other Cup winner was Johannesburg in the2001 Juvenile.
This year, the Ballydoyle team was made up entirely of two- and three-year-olds, and O'Brien said on Sunday: "For our three-year-olds, there are a lot of races to run in on the way to the Breeders' Cup. The workload is tough.
"They started training in the spring, when the ground was soft, worked hard and then had a summer of competitive races. They are not machines.
"We need to try to keep improving and tweaking things. We have a lot of high- class two-year-olds and we have to look at maybe giving some of them an easier time in the summer next year.
"If we have suitable older horses, that is easier because they don't start training as early.We also need to have another look at medication. We took the view that our horses didn't need Lasix at home and we would run them the natural way over here, but perhaps there is a case for doing as the Romans do when in Rome."
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