Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
clivex said:
Having no opposition matters. And if you think that it is "for the time being" you clearly do not understand what is at stake here and what the mechanics are

this forum is full of labour supporters and poncy Guardian readers and with their party in its "biggest crisis since 1915 (?)" absolutely nothing to say

Weird

The potential end of a major political party is a far bigger story than a change a leadership.
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True I would not be familiar with the mechanics of this particular political system and you would not find me among Labour supporters at least not in it's current incarnation, if it was relevant to me, but I do enjoy reading the Guardian among a host of other dailies. but I contend that the potential end of this major political party has been underway for some time now, just being accelerated by Brexit so personally not surprised. I stated in an earlier post that I found Corbyn's none existence during the Brexit campaign baffling.

Find it hard to believe that some sort of proper opposition will not come from this eventually but as you say I am not familiar with the mechanics.

Do love the way you brush off the other side as just a "change in leadership" and completely ignore the dynamics.

Gove and his wife being referred to as a real life Francis and Claire Underwood has a certain appeal I must admit.
 
The key is that even if he's useless the membership will vote him back In Regardless. That's been shown by some recent polls. It's a cult of personality which is a feature of the hard left of course

so you have a real mess. Even if he doesn't ru again a accolyte will win. It's a genuine mess.

The only end game is a split. Or flabbot!

Its ts far more serious than what's occuring with the Tories. Power or not

amd we need an opposition badly
 
Desert Orchid said:
Seriously?

A history of ruthless warmongering and they don't deserve criticism?

They are the classroom bully of the Middle East. If someone looks at them the wrong way they hit out. If someone acts against them their solution is to crack the nut with a sledgehammer and then claim they were provoked.

They are to peace what the Argentine team of the mid-60s to mid-70s was to football.
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Of course Israel can and should be criticised, a solid democracy should be able to with stand this. A good friend of mine a former tank commander during the Yom Kippur war does this constantly, but in context.
Your points above are specious at best but mostly inaccurate.

You can look up the war history between Israel and the rest of most of the Middle east yourself.
It's all very complicated but in 2000 Israel made, what many considered to be far reaching concessions towards the Palestinians at the Camp David summit. Arafat simply refused and made no counter offers. A potentially golden opportunity wasted. Palestine is not in a good place today in good part because of that refusal.
Agree also that best left for another thread
 
brendanr said:
Of course Israel can and should be criticised, a solid democracy should be able to with stand this. A good friend of mine a former tank commander during the Yom Kippur war does this constantly, but in context.
Your points above are specious at best but mostly inaccurate.

You can look up the war history between Israel and the rest of most of the Middle east yourself.
It's all very complicated but in 2000 Israel made, what many considered to be far reaching concessions towards the Palestinians at the Camp David summit. Arafat simply refused and made no counter offers. A potentially golden opportunity wasted. Palestine is not in a good place today in good part because of that refusal.
Agree also that best left for another thread
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spot on
 
Theresa may could be the best thing that's ever happened to the labour party,if they ever get a decent leader it's only a matter of time before Dan Jarvis takes over anyway!!!:ninja:
 
Can we not do this on the Brexit thread?

In fact, can we not do it at all?

Threads about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict have been done a hundred times on here, and they always end-up in the same spot - exactly where they started.
 
Grasshopper said:
Can we not do this on the Brexit thread?

In fact, can we not do it at all?

Threads about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict have been done a hundred times on here, and they always end-up in the same spot - exactly where they started.
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It is germane to the conversation about whether or not Jermy Corbyn is an appropriate leader.
 
Israel is the only overseas issue that gets many posters twitching. Cant imagine why that is

Yes Grass and in fact there is no longer a conversation to be had about Corbyn.
 
clivex said:
His and his teams agenda is a takeover of the party not power.
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He was legitimately elected as the leader of the party by the representatives of the party. The same people who elected those who are now attempting to oust him. Which of course means that those MP's are not reflecting the wishes of their constituents by attempting to oust him. If people are not reflecting the wishes of their constituents then they should be ejected from office.

The question of whether or not he is electable as Prime Minister is another matter entirely and the answer is, probably not. But that's got sod all to do with whether or not the members of the Labour Party want him as leader.
 
I am amazed that no-one appears to have noticed the resemblance between Michael Gove and Heinrich Himmler yet.

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Bullshit. The members are not the constituents. they are a about 3% of the total voters and largely fanatics.

A labour party fully represented by mps that are for open door world wide immigration, venezeluan economics. costing up to putin, leaving the capitalist conspiracy eu, apologising for islamic extremism, stripping the uks defence and barely concealing their hate for the white english is not going to win 10 million votes
 
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Heinrich is drifting like the proverbial at present out to ~18/1. Does this suggest an imminent cyanide pill?

'A John Major moment' floats around my brain. Andrea Leadsom to emerge from the shadows and lead a pro-exit government
 
clivex said:
Bullshit. The members are not the constituents. they are a about 3% of the total voters and largely fanatics.

A labour party fully represented by mps that are for open door world wide immigration, venezeluan economics. costing up to putin, leaving the capitalist conspiracy eu, apologising for islamic extremism, stripping the uks defence and barely concealing their hate for the white english is not going to win 10 million votes
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No they are not. Perhaps the SNP's suggestion that they should be the official opposition isn't quite so laughable. A Labour party as far to the left as Corbyn will never win an election and until such time as Labour members get fed up of not being in power and move towards the centre they won't vote in anyone from that arena.

Lets not forget that the reason they voted in the Ed Miller Band and Corbyn was because Gordon Brown was basically the same as the Tories - at the time you couldn't tell the difference in manifestos - each party was stealing ideas from the other.
 
Drone said:
Heinrich is drifting like the proverbial at present out to ~18/1. Does this suggest an imminent cyanide pill?

'A John Major moment' floats around my brain. Andrea Leadsom to emerge from the shadows and lead a pro-exit government
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A turd floating in a punch-bowl would have a better chance of winning an election than this specious cretin.

PS. I'm talking about Gove. Leadsom should be baking macaroons down at the WI, rather than kidding herself on that she is a PM in-waiting.
 
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http://fermanaghherald.com/2016/06/foster-must-explain-how-leaving-europe-was-a-good-idea/

This is a pretty good assessment of the likely impact of brexit on Northern Ireland, especially the border counties such as Fermanagh, which Arlene Foster represents. The view of the Republic's prospects is too rosy, not least because the housing sector there is still in such sh*t that people will find it too expensive to move to jobs there. But the line that the North needs to find a way to share in the advantages the south will enjoy is similar to what I've been saying on this thread. Some imagination and flexibility is needed.
 
simmo said:
No they are not. Perhaps the SNP's suggestion that they should be the official opposition isn't quite so laughable. A Labour party as far to the left as Corbyn will never win an election and until such time as Labour members get fed up of not being in power and move towards the centre they won't vote in anyone from that arena.

Lets not forget that the reason they voted in the Ed Miller Band and Corbyn was because Gordon Brown was basically the same as the Tories - at the time you couldn't tell the difference in manifestos - each party was stealing ideas from the other.
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The far left is terrified of power.

I can't see how labour can ever appeal to the wider electorate which includes a high number that voted for them last time around whilst the membership pulls the strings. The whole creation of the Momentum group was designed to create an immovable cultish block of blockheads that will hold sway over the voting. Its a slow or even quick death of the party

We need a new left of centre party to break away asap
 
We should have the same way of voting for leaders as the Tories, it's common sense to let the MPs cut them down to 2 and then let the members choose. Giving us the choice between 4/5 or whatever it was last time is asking for trouble.
 
Meanwhile, Austria highest court has annulled the result of their recent election where the Green beat the Fascist (narrowly) and forced a re-run. What happens if the Freedom Party wins that re-run? Does the EU invoke article 7 on Austria?
 
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