Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
Boris Sergai Lavrov and John Kerry should be an interesting match though I am not sure how long Kerry will be in that position with the forthcoming American election. As for the forecasts about the Brexit..I still reckon its a question of whether this will help or hinder deficit reduction, long term growth and employment. The short term is the first few pages of what will most likely be a long book. Worth remembering everyone is backtracking on their promises on migration. This is something that they themselves got wrong to all intents and purposes.
 
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The so called disaster was only forecast by those that have no idea how trade works . The idea that there were goi g to be trade embargoes and head offices jumping sticks was just plain silly. It's about product and labour first and foremost. Not some tariffs they probably won't even happen
 
Our trading arrangement doesn't change until Article 50 (is invoked and then) lapses.

I still contend it is far too early to call it one way or the other. We can, however, be grateful that arse did not immediately fall out of things, as some predicted.
 
The onus is on the Brexiteers to fulfill their promises about Migration really. They can talk about the economy all day long but until they show how they have changed migration, which might take a generation, its too early to claim an intellectual victory.
 
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This is a very dodgy-looking cabinet that's being formed.

At a time when we needed Chippendale to replace the Ikea just dismantled, it looks like we're getting Argos.
 
Most of the positions look fairly sensible. Hammond in particular is a safe pair of hands, though I would have preferred Osborne to stay on. However WTF is she thinking with BoJo as Foreign Secretary? That's got faux pas written all over it. In fact she might as well have appointed Prince Phillip.
 
Grasshopper said:
Our trading arrangement doesn't change until Article 50 (is invoked and then) lapses.

I still contend it is far too early to call it one way or the other. We can, however, be grateful that arse did not immediately fall out of things, as some predicted.
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siemens and Boeing are looking beyond that I think you will find

i domt understand the word "grateful". No one is doing us a favour here. We have a big economy which is vibrant (unlike most of the eu) and the worlds biggest magnet for talent in the world's leading city. There is a can do culture to business and trade in the uk which is missing over much of Europe.
 
The "world's leading city" is going to be significantly less of a "magnet" after we leave the EU.

Don't respond in future, if you are going to continue to completely ignore the fact that nothing has changed and won't change until we actually leave the EU.
 
No its not . Complete nonsense. London is a services city of course and the beloved tariffs do not apply to services.

God knows how London transacts with the US China and the rest of the world then.

You have no idea. No idea at all why the city will always draw in the best. Ask Google maybe

Still maybe London will miss the eus ability to frame trade agreements with the rest of the world . Or about 5% of it
 
That is total nonsense and you are struggling

You don't get it. Siemens and others are planning for after the ******* change.

Do you really think these conglomerates are waiting for the actual day before saying " oh I think we better move to warsaw"
 
BennyB said:
Most of the positions look fairly sensible. Hammond in particular is a safe pair of hands, though I would have preferred Osborne to stay on. However WTF is she thinking with BoJo as Foreign Secretary? That's got faux pas written all over it. In fact she might as well have appointed Prince Phillip.
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The cabinet - and therefore the government - becomes a laughing stock with this appointment.

To paraphrase Ken Wolstenhome at the end of the world cup, they think the country's fucked... it is now.
 
Boris undoubtably has his faults but I'm baffled how those who haven't the faintest idea of what his real pros and cons are can assume to have a better judgement than those who have worked pretty close to him or close to those that know him for many years
 
clivex said:
No its not . Complete nonsense. London is a services city of course and the beloved tariffs do not apply to services.

God knows how London transacts with the US China and the rest of the world then.

You have no idea. No idea at all why the city will always draw in the best. Ask Google maybe

Still maybe London will miss the eus ability to frame trade agreements with the rest of the world . Or about 5% of it
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Clearly, if no open-movement agreement is reached with the EU, then it will - by default - become harder for EU citizens to move to London for work, which absolutely has the potential to impact London's 'draw'.

You cannot absorb this straightforward fact, because you are an intellectual simpleton, who sees every argument as either black or white.....and often completely ignore potential downsides, because they fail to prop-up the gingerbread-house fantasy that is CliveWorld.

PS. It's great to have you back in full effect.:lol:
 
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clivex said:
That is total nonsense and you are struggling

You don't get it. Siemens and others are planning for after the ******* change.

Do you really think these conglomerates are waiting for the actual day before saying " oh I think we better move to warsaw"
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I often think you are certifiable.

How can a company plan for "after" a change, when they have no idea what that fu*cking change is.

They are planning ahead as all large enterprises are compelled to do by their shareholders, based on a set of assumptions......and as all enterprises must do, they will re-plan dependent on how closely those assumptions match reality.
 
clivex said:
Boris undoubtably has his faults but I'm baffled how those who haven't the faintest idea of what his real pros and cons are can assume to have a better judgement than those who have worked pretty close to him or close to those that know him for many years
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May is playing a blinder.

Move the toilet-brush into the FCO hot-seat, and wait for him to self-immolate. I give it 18 months max, before he has to step down.

Put the smart and non-threatening Davis in charge of Brexit, to convince Leavers she is serious.

Put the hateful Fox in charge of Trade, and hang any terrible deal we get from the EU, around his neck.

Purge the Cabinet of Gove and the rest of the problematical-but-less-obvious Leave campaigners.

I'm liking her style. She has nuts.
 
Grasshopper said:
May is playing a blinder.

Move the toilet-brush into the FCO hot-seat, and wait for him to self-immolate. I give it 18 months max, before he has to step down.

Put the smart and non-threatening Davis in charge of Brexit, to convince Leavers she is serious.

Put the hateful Fox in charge of Trade, and hang any terrible deal we get from the EU, around his neck.

Purge the Cabinet of Gove and the rest of the problematical-but-less-obvious Leave campaigners.

I'm liking her style. She has nuts.
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Oliver Letwin gone too. The only man who could give Farage lessons on how to be smug. Not surprised to see Nicky Morgan out too - not sure she was ever up to being in the cabinet.

Think David Davis is a very good appointment, always rated him.

Surprised Chris Grayling hasn't been given a top job.
 
Boris lies to the country to get them to leave the EU and is rewarded with one of the top jobs in Government?

Hammond a good appointment. Osborne has made sh*t of the economy with his failed austerity policies. I like David Davis too although his article on Conservative Home about Brexit negotiations is embarrassing.

What's notable is how many of Ed Miliband and Ed Ball's policies Theresa May is espousing. Good to see.
 
Grasshopper said:
I often think you are certifiable.

How can a company plan for "after" a change, when they have no idea what that fu*cking change is.

They are planning ahead as all large enterprises are compelled to do by their shareholders, based on a set of assumptions......and as all enterprises must do, they will re-plan dependent on how closely those assumptions match reality.
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this is ridiculous. You clearly haven't read Siemens statement. They have made it very clear that they are continuing to invest in the uk for many years to come regardless. They are clearly saying that brexit makes no material difference

Siemens are just about as serious a euro player as you can't get.

they didn't have to state that did they?

i think every business is pretty well aware that brexit is going to happen .
 
Grasshopper said:
May is playing a blinder.

Move the toilet-brush into the FCO hot-seat, and wait for him to self-immolate. I give it 18 months max, before he has to step down.

Put the smart and non-threatening Davis in charge of Brexit, to convince Leavers she is serious.

Put the hateful Fox in charge of Trade, and hang any terrible deal we get from the EU, around his neck.

Purge the Cabinet of Gove and the rest of the problematical-but-less-obvious Leave campaigners.

I'm liking her style. She has nuts.
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i don't for one minute believe she's making a high profile appointment so that they can fail. This isn't house of cards
 
clivex said:
this is ridiculous. You clearly haven't read Siemens statement. They have made it very clear that they are continuing to invest in the uk for many years to come regardless. They are clearly saying that brexit makes no material difference

Siemens are just about as serious a euro player as you can't get.

they didn't have to state that did they?

i think every business is pretty well aware that brexit is going to happen .
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No doubt, but the number of business who know the terms of Brexit is precisely zero, and to suggest that those terms will be immaterial no matter what, is complete hogwash.
 
clivex said:
i don't for one minute believe she's making a high profile appointment so that they can fail. This isn't house of cards
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It's a lot more like House of Cards than you think.

Appointing Johnson at FCO is the perfect strategy for her. She has given a high-profile role to the darling of both the Leave and Party Membership caucus, negating any threat of them becoming 'restless' about her selections.

If Johnson turns out to be successful, there is no downside. If he is a failure, he will lose the support of the membership anyway; and can be punted with no repercussions.

It is a no-lose selection for her.
 
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I think there's two take-outs

The first is the cull of the Clan Cameron and the modernisers

The second is the more pertinent and that concerns the Brexit ministries of FCO (Boris) International Trade (Fox) Brexit (Davis). Clearly the UK isn't going to waltz into Brussels and expect to walk away with unfettered access to the single market without having to make compromises. At some point, the Brexiteers are inevitably going to have to retreat from their highest aspirations, as they won't be able to get a clean sweep on their shopping list without having to give a few things back. When that happens there is bound to be some kick back from the dissenters on the back benchers (if only because they've had their own noses pushed out of joint). Far better to allow the Brexiteers to make these concessions than a Remainian, as the latter is always going to be vulnerable to allegations of 'selling out'

She isn't setting them up to fail necessary, but setting them up to struggle, and in doing so, protect her. It's more of an exercise in the art of realpolitik

"While I see lives, the gashes do better upon them"
 
Hamm said:
Osborne has made sh*t of the economy with his failed austerity policies..
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The differing versions of Osborne as a Politician & Chancellor get more extreme by the day.
Not so long ago he was branded the brainchild behind the economic recovery, and a shrewd operator who was nailed on to be the next Prime Minister.

Then there's people like Hamm that think he messed the economy up.
I defy anyone to tell me that if they were chancellor they would have increased borrowing and spending in the height of a recession after 2008?

To fair to him, he's left Philip Hammond with something to develop and work with, which he himself (Osborne) couldn't claim to be the case in 2010 when taking over from whoever Gordon Brown had in charge of No.11.
 
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