Champion Hurdle 2014

Grasshopper said:
MTOY was held at Kempton until TNO's error - I'm convinced of that now. And he refused to go past in the Supreme - I'm convinced of that too, having watched the race back again last weekend.

Squiggle is in the post.
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Again, more to the point - AP clearly wasn't. :lol:
 
reet hard said:
Great post Kauto, and I'd agree entirely that Ruby's artistry won him the Supreme. Also the Kelso ground would likely be a piece worse than some blithely anticipate.
Wouldn't write the Fly off on Captain Cee Bee's proximity though as that was merely a function of the poor pace the latter set.
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No but the reason I brought up Captain Cee Bee was that Ruby himself alluded to it just after the Race. Irish tv covering Leopardstown that day brought Ruby over for an interview. Before they talked about the flys big win the asked Ruby about Big Bucks the day before on his return. He said he wouldn't have rode any different than STD and that knowing Paul Nicholls as he did he'd have been fit enough to win that race.

He continued by saying that 2 years ago the winner, Knockara Beau, wouldn't have got within a furlong of Big Bucks and that would now have to be a big worry going forward. Fair play to the two interviewers Robert Hall & Ruby's dad Ted. Quick as a flash they both brought up Captain Cee Bee and Maritos performances in finishing so close to the fly this year to which Ruby alluded that it was indeed a worry that they were finishing as close as they were. 2 years ago he'd have been beating them a distance however the race was run, like the way he was beating Unaccompanied & Thousand stars, much more decent horses than the two mentioned above.

I just thought that summary by the jockey of Hurricane Fly was very interesting. He's the one who knows the horse best.
 
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Quick as a flash they both brought up Captain Cee Bee and Maritos performances in finishing so close to the fly this year to which Ruby alluded that it was indeed a worry that they were finishing as close as they were. 2 years ago he'd have been beating them a distance however the race was run, like the way he was beating Unaccompanied & Thousand stars, much more decent horses than the two mentioned above.

I just thought that summary by the jockey of Hurricane Fly was very interesting. He's the one who knows the horse best.
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Good stuff. At last something on thread worth taking on board
 
CCB was an irrelevance in both the Ryanair and Irish Champion Hurdles.....they let him do his own thing out front, and collared him as they pleased. His proximity was due to the way those races were run, and anyone taking literal lbs-per-length view of the form is on decidedly shaky ground.

In fact, they'd be fannies if they did that (not that I'm suggssting anyone here is adopting such a Janet-and-John approach). :cool:
 
Kauto Abu said:
Quick as a flash they both brought up Captain Cee Bee and Maritos performances in finishing so close to the fly this year to which Ruby alluded that it was indeed a worry that they were finishing as close as they were. 2 years ago he'd have been beating them a distance however the race was run, like the way he was beating Unaccompanied & Thousand stars, much more decent horses than the two mentioned above.
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Marito is a red herring IMO, anyone who pays attention to HF first time out is barking up the wrong tree, he was beaten by Solwhit and possibly could have been beaten by Go Native first time out in recent years.

I think how the race was run plays a huge amount into proximities also, TS used to set a much better pace, when a race is run at a crawl and turned into a sprint finish or if the horse in front is given too much rope you can't expect the winning distance to be that big.

Agree that Ruby saying it is a concern is interesting but Jezki finished behind CCB after all so I'm not going to pay too much attention. I just thought the race showed HFs versatility and that fact he was the best horse in the race.
 
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Ruby expresses a concern. thats the key point. He could easily have stated that we "could have won by more if etc etc"

But he didnt
 
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clivex said:
Good stuff. At last something on thread worth taking on board
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I thought it was interesting. Now whether Ruby felt he had no option but to say that after his assessment on Big Bucks or is thinking that himself, only he knows but I don't think he'd have said it on national tv so as not to look a hypocrite. He is generally very frank and tells it how it is. As I said he is the guy who knows the horse, the feel he's giving etc, not one of us do.

They were his words, not mine.
 
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clivex said:
Ruby expresses a concern. thats the key point. He could easily have stated that we "could have won by more if etc etc"

But he didnt
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Because he didn't need to say it......it's self bleedin' evident from Hurricane Fly's career-record.

Ruby "expresses a concern". Don't make me laugh. He is Johnny Tight-Lips......he sees a lot of things, but doesn't give anything away.....it's all platitudes in his media dealings.
 
I watched RTE that day. There was no reference to Marito.

All Hall/Walsh Snr asked was.."Would you be worried by the proximity of Captain Cee Bee?" Ruby said.."Yes.."

Relevant, yes, but that's as far as he went...his tone in the interview was still generally quite bullish
 
Career record means nothing come march.

He did give something away though didn't he?

Thats the point.

You just fear his opinion

Relevant, yes, but that's as far as he went...his tone in the interview was still generally quite bullish
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Thats where the platitudes were. after the guard had slipped.

I think anyone opposing HF would have been delighted by his comment
 
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Lads...it's Our Conor all over...only reservation is the likely jock. Love to see Carberry on him but never going to happen.
 
As Our Conor is Harchibald mark 2 Carberry would be perfect for him!

The image of Harchibald after the last, apparently cruising, head high in the air, carberry's arse even higher and found.....fook all
 
"Patiently ridden towards rear, steady headway 3 out, joined winner on bit after last, shaken up final 50yds, lacked response".

I love that - 'Lacked Response'. As polite as they could be I suppose......
 
clivex said:
Career record means nothing come march.

He did give something away though didn't he?

Thats the point.

You just fear his opinion



Thats where the platitudes were. after the guard had slipped.

I think anyone opposing HF would have been delighted by his comment
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I refer the Honourable Member to my earlier "fannies" comment.
 
tiggers1972 said:
As Our Conor is Harchibald mark 2 Carberry would be perfect for him!

The image of Harchibald after the last, apparently cruising, head high in the air, carberry's arse even higher and found.....fook all
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Our Conor is no Harchi...more substance to him. The Triumph last year appears to have been forgotten.
 
Jambo said:
I watched RTE that day. There was no reference to Marito.

All Hall/Walsh Snr asked was.."Would you be worried by the proximity of Captain Cee Bee?" Ruby said.."Yes.."

Relevant, yes, but that's as far as he went...his tone in the interview was still generally quite bullish
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He also said after the race to RUK that because the summer was so good HF came back bigger & heavier than normal and then said Paul Townend (who had been working him at the yard) told him that HF had never been so 'unready' for a race before and that the others would give him a race but of course would not beat him.
 
That was the case with most horses to be fair. That was alluded to by most trainers. I remember prior to oscar whiskeys first race this year he was as big as a bull. I contemplated backing him until i saw the size of him. Henderson said after that it was a struggle to get him fit because of the summer and the quality of the grass grazed. It wasn't just the fly that enjoyed the good summer.
 
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Oh I see you take Ruby's comments in one interview to back your angle but dismiss his comments of HF never being so 'unready' in another.
 
Where did I dismiss them? I agreed if anything but said it was the case with most horses that they returned way bigger after the summer break!!

To dismiss his comments would be to suggest that he didn't return overweight, which I didn't do.
 
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I seem to remember a quote from Mullins telling us that he was fitter and stronger than ever.

He didnt add "slower" ...but we can do that later
 
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Ruby/PT specifically mentioned the Fly 'never being so unready to race' he did not apply the same remark to any of Willie's other runners in the race, so seems like a valid comment, I don't think the Morgiana has proved anything nor any comments afterwards either.

Personally It is that tight a race I still cannot commit to any horse (maybe Jezki each way and bar a small interest bet on UDS) until we know the likely going, as Maruco posted many pages ago the going and the pace of the race will decide the winner, we wont know the pace until it starts but we will know the going.
 
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Thats where i am on this too. As an aside, thats why fuss about national weights baffles me. You can real extremes of going at aintree, so whats the point of hanging hat on one horse

But Jezki is not on my radar.
 
Regards the going. HF has won two CHs on good-soft, but if it comes up soft or worse he is still the best horse in the field and has won many races on terrible ground conditions in Ireland.

And he is clearly the most versatile as regards the pace. That's not to say there are not other horses who might cope better with a full-on pace or crawl (but not both). He just happens to have the best jockey, too
 
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