Champion Hurdle 2014

That's not even a collateral comparison.

Zarkandar had Grandouet behind in his Triumph who went on to win a grade 1 hurdle and was travelling well until he fell in last years champion.

Zarkandar does appear to be a stayer and Triumph hurdle trends do allude to staying types.

Our Conors pedigree especially his dosage smacks of 21/2 mile hence the cruise on the stiffer new course last year.
 
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baracouda said:
using Zarkandar as a comparison for our conor as a previous triumph hurdle winner and Z placing 6L behind HF in the champion hdl. the following year as a 5yo. that year Z ran on at the finish like the stayer he is.
I can see the same for OC except when he runs on from behind on the tail of a fast pace , he will sail past them.
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How come you can take faith in ridiculous comparisons yet ignore the facts.


You are a true Our Conor heart ruling the head merchant.
 
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baracouda said:
using Zarkandar as a comparison for our conor as a previous triumph hurdle winner and Z placing 6L behind HF in the champion hdl. the following year as a 5yo. that year Z ran on at the finish like the stayer he is.
I can see the same for OC except when he runs on from behind on the tail of a fast pace , he will sail past them.
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On your comparison I can see OC getting beat 6 lengths by HF especially after HF has already done him twice off slow and fast paces and giving him weight on both occasions.

What else can you hypothesise from what could be if you don't believe what you did see.:confused:
 
The Champion Hurdle is run at a fast pace from start to finish. Every year the front runners fade from the last hurdle out and those that can stay on and finish when stamina comes to the fore.
With the fast pace and stiff uphill climb bringing stamina into play its equal to 2 1/2 m on a park course.
Perfect for Our Conor.
 
baracouda said:
The Champion Hurdle is run at a fast pace from start to finish. Every year the front runners fade from the last hurdle out and those that can stay on and finish when stamina comes to the fore.
With the fast pace and stiff uphill climb bringing stamina into play its equal to 2 1/2 m on a park course.
Perfect for Our Conor.
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Not quite I reckon about 2m 2f, and yes you are right they do go hell to the leather in the champion and what's more HF has proven twice he has that stamina requisite off of a very fast pace, and there's more, he has also proven it with a lengthy top speed battle from some way out, Our Conor hasn't.
 
OC with the expected improvement and ground to suit and maturity equivalent to 6-7 months in human years. Dessie did it with Hardy. OC beats HF. The camp are bullish and not bullshitters
 
baracouda said:
OC with the expected improvement and ground to suit and maturity equivalent to 6-7 months in human years. Dessie did it with Hardy. OC beats HF. The camp are bullish and not bullshitters
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The camp are optimistic and far from bullish, your more bullish than them....Connell said today....COULD improve for the faster pace.

Hurricane Fly has already proved he is 9 lengths more superior than Our conor with a faster pace.

Who in your opinion is going to make this fast pace because from where I'm sitting I see a lot wanting it and no one making it.

Can see the race turning into a tactical affair, I half expected Jezki to miss the race and wait for Aintree but I suppose he still has questions to be answered and can run from the front, would be very dangerous to let him bowl 10 lengths clear.
 
baracouda said:
OC with the expected improvement and ground to suit and maturity equivalent to 6-7 months in human years. Dessie did it with Hardy. OC beats HF. The camp are bullish and not bullshitters
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Improvement not guaranteed from a precocious type...how do you know he hasn't hit the ceiling in terms of speed, will only improve stamina if that's the case.

This is really a guessing game but I would rather use and believe in my combined intuitive and reasoning skills over my heart felt ones. I have lost money using both but won far more using the former.
 
baracouda said:
OC with the expected improvement and ground to suit and maturity equivalent to 6-7 months in human years. Dessie did it with Hardy. OC beats HF. The camp are bullish and not bullshitters
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On another note, who gave you privy to what the exact going will be on the day, and hasn't the Fly won on all goings while you are concerning about the ground to suit.
 
baracouda said:
The Champion Hurdle is run at a fast pace from start to finish. Every year the front runners fade from the last hurdle out and those that can stay on and finish when stamina comes to the fore.
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No it's not and no they don't.

This notion that they always go hell for leather from start to finish is a nonsense. They just run parts of the race faster than average because they are well above average.

Hardy Eustace? You've even quoted the bloody horse later...
 
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I sound as if I am completely on the side of the Fly here. But that's not entirely true.

For the record I have it between The Fly and MTOY with Our Conor not placing.
 
WPM talking to hacks after Daneking's win more or less implying considerable doubts about Un De Sceaux running at Cheltenham as the Red Mills hurdle took quite a bit out of him.
 
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all horses improve if they have the size and scope to up to maturity at 5yo -mature and filled their frame .I'm not guessing that he was within 1l of HF a few months back, I saw it on the tv. another 3 weeks time..he wins
 
You know what Woody, we have bantered on for over a week with this, I have given you the facts and all you have given me is the what could happens with the what ifs and you still steadfastly refuse to even consider or listen in case you break your own heart.

Wishful Thinking....
 
I won't be heart broken if HF wins. I've got him multiples with other W.Mullins runners at the festival.
 
baracouda said:
all horses improve if they have the size and scope to up to maturity at 5yo -mature and filled their frame .I'm not guessing that he was within 1l of HF a few months back, I saw it on the tv. another 3 weeks time..he wins
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I don't doubt for a second that he won't travel well throughout the race and be bang there at the finish. What I do doubt from what I have already seen is he will not have or be able to sustain the top speed battle for as long as is needed to win against top class individuals that have.
 
not seen the interview but sounds like he's implied UDS hasn't come out of yesterday well?

embarassing from him if that's true
 
Double Handful said:
Ah now suny, 178+ OR for UDS..........

175 is the highest OR of a Champion Hurdle winner in the last 20 odd years! And that was Binocular.

1998 - Istabraq 174 OR
2013 - Hurricane Fly 173 OR

You're suggesting 178+ for a Horse that hasn't even run in a Grade 1 yet.

I think someone may have spiked your breakfast milk with acid or something suny!
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I prefer acid rather than milk for breakfast


talking seriously
the figures I posted are adjussted to 12-0
so the horse is 174++?
I can be 10 poubds too high
but maybe I am short

he is the one with more scope of the field, has been posting good times,
and more importantly the field is full of good horses but you dont have here an Istabraq or a Rooster Booster,
what you have is an old horse that not operates at the same level on this course as he does in Ireland and some good 160s horses.


about the OR
they are simply a joke in this level
they are always conservative with this kind of horses because if they are wrong they dont want to be stupids and is much easier to explain the horse has "improve"


when something looks so good it probably is
 
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Maxbet said:
You know what Woody, we have bantered on for over a week with this, I have given you the facts and all you have given me is the what could happens with the what ifs and you still steadfastly refuse to even consider or listen in case you break your own heart.



Wishful Thinking....
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Now you're just being silly - even I know he's not entered........
 
No he stated he didn't want to put UDS in against these horses at this stage, it's a fair point given his hurdling isn't always great but I hope he lines up for the sake of the race.

It's going to be an interesting few weeks checking on UDS and AP to see if they line up.
 
May the Fly always find you on a dreary day.
When Our Conor doesn't get home, and you lose your way.
May you always think twice when taking a chance
And when it all looks to be going wrong I just hope you dont fill your underpants.
 
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sunybay said:
I prefer acid rather than milk for breakfast


talking seriously
the figures I posted are adjussted to 12-0
so the horse is 174++?
I can be 10 poubds too high
but maybe I am short

he is the one with more scope of the field, has been posting good times,
and more importantly the field is full of good horses but you dont have here an Istabraq or a Rooster Booster,
what you have is an old horse that not operates at the same level on this course as he does in Ireland and some good 160s horses.


about the OR
they are simply a joke in this level
they are always conservative with this kind of horses because if they are wrong they dont want to be stupids and is much easier to explain the horse has "improve"


when something looks so good it probably is
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In a Champion Hurdle as good as this one looks (think your under-estimating the quality, suny), your horse ideally wants:

1. Proven form against Grade 1 horses.
2. Proven form at the track.
3. Proven form on the likely ground.

UDS might get suitable ground, but he has no track form and no worthwhile measurable form in this class of race.

As for the form he has shown, how confident can you be in a lbs-per-length assessment of his level?

He's beaten trees by miles, it's true, but he's never faced more than three runners in any of his outings, they've all been in bottomless ground, and his opponents have been utterly out-classed anyway.

And what of the yard? Neither the trainer or the jockey think he can beat Hurricane Fly, and in this case, I trust their local-knowledge more, than I would Un De Sceaux's bare form.

He could be Pegasus, but there are far too many question-marks and/or outright negatives, for 12/1 to make any appeal. I'd rather back one of the pincipals (all pretty-much guaranteed to run their race), and take my medicine if UDS does turn-out to be a wonder horse.
 
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Grasshopper said:
And what of the yard? Neither the trainer or the jockey think he can beat Hurricane Fly, and in this case, I trust their local-knowledge more, than I would Un De Sceaux's bare form.

.
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If I were Ruby and would ride Hurricane
I would like Mullins doesnt run the horse

I prefer the opinions of owners and what about Townnend

the 2 keys are
the pace he would put is a negative for Hurricane


if the trainer wants him chasing then try once in the champion hurdle
the other is the horse is healthy now but could be fit next season

you have to hit the iron when the iron is hot


also note Hurrican is not an odds one chance, so why not run another horse with chance in the stable.



can you imagine how stupd can look Willie if this horse doesnt run , Hurricane is beaten and UDS wins the Champion Hurdle next season?
 
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