Champion Stakes

Bar the Bull said:
Haven't read any plans anywhere, but that would seem logical.

The Dewhurst is a race, this isn't. Incidentally, the Dewhurst will have just two individual G1 winners in opposition.
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It will only have one actually but Dream Ahead has won two of them. Frankel, despite all the hype has yet to contest a Group 1 although his form is of a group 1 standard.

The 10f division has been distinctly average all year with no decent 3yo's apart from Cape Blanco and Rip hasn't really lived up to the hype. Doesn't mean this isn't an interesting race. Await the Dawn is an intrguing runner and bar Rip, Cape Blanco and probably Byword I can't think of many other horses who should be lining up?
 
I agree that Await the Dawn is an interesting runner.

Lope de Vega and Planteur could have gone for this rather than the Arc if it was worth a lot more.

Screw that, you're right. It's just a shite division apart from the three you named and (at a push) my two.

Doesn't make the race any better.
 
I remain to be convinced about Await The Dawn - his price the last day hardly suggested he was a Group 1 horse in the making and I cannot help but think that the ground at Leopardstown ensured plenty ran below form. Maybe he is much better than they thought but I would prefer to see it again before believing - whats more I am not sure drying ground will suit him even though he is by Giant's Causeway.

Twice Over was aimed at this race all last year but he has danced virtually every dance in the 10 furlong races this year and he had a tough old slog at Leopardstown the last day. He is generally very solid but I could see the season catching up with him now - remember he was running in Dubai earlier in the year.

Debussy is not good enough to win even an average Group 1 in Britain so will pass on him.

Poet's Voice could be a big danger, and the step up in trip should suit him but something about that QEII makes me think that it was not all that good of a race and that it did fall into his lap somewhat in the last half furlong. For a mile race the leaders finished absolutely legless.

Snow Fairy looks worthy of her place in the line up but again she has had a hard old time of things and this is a big step down in trip. Whats more the 3 year old fillies look a pretty poor bunch.

The French have a really good record in this race in recent years - two of the last four winners - with that in mind I think Fuisse is an interesting runner. I think Marek is a superb trainer, one of the best in Europe and I love to see her bring runners over. Won an admittidly poor Moulin last time out but on that occasion he looked as though the return to 10 furlongs would really suit. Drying ground should suit him or should certainly not be an inconvience and 8/1 I think he is pretty fair value in a very open race.

As others have said I think Vision D'Etat is a big danger but is a little too short in the market based on what he has done this year. Could be a French 1-2
 
The QE11 was a terrible race. Those punters thinking he's priced up as a non-stayer are barking up the wrong tree. His form isn't good enough.
 
I think so, he's the dark horse in race but still a doubt in my mind he's a better horse on synthetics than turf.

Tazeez is massive at 33s if he runs in this rather than the Group 3 on Friday.
 
So, just to clarify - is Tazeez a dog then?

And, is it the same idea re course form I always blab on re Youmzain?

:lol:
 
No, but previous Group Ones are important in judging the quality of a race, as was debated previously in the thread.

I actually think one of the most likely winners, is yet to win a Group One in Await The Dawn, I'd rather back him than Fuisse or Twice Over at the prices anyway.

Will think I'll only back Tazeez though if he runs, was value in Gitano at 16s but not at 10s.
 
Galileo said:
I remain to be convinced about Await The Dawn - his price the last day hardly suggested he was a Group 1 horse in the making and I cannot help but think that the ground at Leopardstown ensured plenty ran below form. Maybe he is much better than they thought but I would prefer to see it again before believing - whats more I am not sure drying ground will suit him even though he is by Giant's Causeway.

Twice Over was aimed at this race all last year but he has danced virtually every dance in the 10 furlong races this year and he had a tough old slog at Leopardstown the last day. He is generally very solid but I could see the season catching up with him now - remember he was running in Dubai earlier in the year.

Debussy is not good enough to win even an average Group 1 in Britain so will pass on him.

Poet's Voice could be a big danger, and the step up in trip should suit him but something about that QEII makes me think that it was not all that good of a race and that it did fall into his lap somewhat in the last half furlong. For a mile race the leaders finished absolutely legless.

Snow Fairy looks worthy of her place in the line up but again she has had a hard old time of things and this is a big step down in trip. Whats more the 3 year old fillies look a pretty poor bunch.

The French have a really good record in this race in recent years - two of the last four winners - with that in mind I think Fuisse is an interesting runner. I think Marek is a superb trainer, one of the best in Europe and I love to see her bring runners over. Won an admittidly poor Moulin last time out but on that occasion he looked as though the return to 10 furlongs would really suit. Drying ground should suit him or should certainly not be an inconvience and 8/1 I think he is pretty fair value in a very open race.

As others have said I think Vision D'Etat is a big danger but is a little too short in the market based on what he has done this year. Could be a French 1-2
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Very good summary.

I do think Gitano Hernando is worth a mention as an unexposed horse who was unlucky in the Dubai World Cup, and I think 10/1 still has a bit of value in it (not an antepost proposition till his trainer confirms him a definite runner).

Vision d'Etat has the form, and has had the perfect prep, and ground will make no difference. He had the added benefit of Peslier on top, and it's hard not to see him going very close and 9/2 looks very big to me.
 
If Poets Voice gets the trip..it could be pay day for you Hamm..you been keen on him for long enough..are you going to leave hime here?

we been discussing that QE2 on the speed fig thread..its a decent race to be fair

i'm tempted into backing him tbh..the QE2 looks average on form..but its a good time race for sure.

its not hard to see Vison winning it either..would the ground be a bit quick for Vision though?
 
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I did think that but they get significant dews in the morning at Newmarket which takes the sting out of it, think it'll be good now with the odd quick patch.

Just don't like taking Ascot form elsewhere EC, Vision be the one carrying my money although Await The Dawn does interest me although I suspect he's one for the future.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Just don't like taking Ascot form elsewhere EC
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I think Mr Segal was the first pundit I heard voice this and it does have some merit, but for me it's now getting to be an overfactored thing in the market. Vision has good form elsewhere and for me crucially ran well at the back end of the season last year.
 
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Euronymous said:
The ground on Saturday wont be as quick as it was at Ascot last year.
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thats only one win on fast though..its not the norm for him.

its just a niggle

it could be argued that PV has shown improved form with juice though

oh i'm all confused now :)

its quite a tough jigsaw this..i normally don't find it hard to focus on one in these top races..but i'm struggling
 
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