Champions Day

As Galileo says FAG will need some rain.

If he gets that he will be hard to beat...otherwise he is vulnerable..
 
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Well done Galileo on the nice odds.

However, I think Fame and Glory should be 2 or 3 times the price he is. He needs 1m6+, not 1m2. Any rain will suit Sariska just as much, and her 2nd on unsuitable ground to Dar re mi reads well.

I look forward to FAG showing us all he is the 130+ horse over 1m2 that many believe him to be...
 
O'Brien, speaking at the Curragh on Sunday, said: "Things didn't work out for Fame And Glory in the Arc buthe came out of that run well and the plan is to run in Newmarket on Saturday.
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What exactly didn't go right for him? The fact he was shown up as needing further than 1m4 and is not quite the horse they thought?
 
Is Al Zir an intended runner in the Dewhurst? 12 seems an awfully big price if that is the case.

I'd love to know who would back Steinbeck at 5.6 for the Dewhurst, considering he has only won a Naas Maiden, is by a sire who has yet to produce a promising horse in his first season and has been off the track since early May?

Chabal looks solid, but Al Zir's price is all wrong compared to the Ballydoyle horse.
 
Fame and Glory's Irish Champion form is far superior to any of opponents best efforts. Whether this race will allow him to show as much, I couldn't be sure enough at current prices. Hopefuuly they'll ride him like Manning did New Approach last year, that would be his best chance of reproducing it.
 
Perhaps, but I think the form of that race has been massively overrated. Mastercraftsman, to me, either did not run his race or doesn't stay a true 1m2. Sea the Stars won that race easier than any other race he has contested this season. FAG's most recent run points to it being a close run thing between him and Sariska, but I think other horses may well go close. I'd love the opportunity to lay FAG at odds on.
 
Hamm said:
Is Al Zir an intended runner in the Dewhurst? 12 seems an awfully big price if that is the case.

I'd love to know who would back Steinbeck at 5.6 for the Dewhurst, considering he has only won a Naas Maiden, is by a sire who has yet to produce a promising horse in his first season and has been off the track since early May?

Chabal looks solid, but Al Zir's price is all wrong compared to the Ballydoyle horse.
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Steinbeck looks ripe for a Rip Van Winkle style run.

Regarding Al Zir I am not sure he has achieved that much more than Steinbeck - and these Godolphin two year olds are not exactly plundering all these Group races as seemed likely to be the case a couple of months back.
 
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I'd love Fame to win this, but don't see him as value. I'd be a bit worried that he wasn't able to assert more in the Arc and ran to a quite modest rating. He'd have to bounce back a fair bit from that performance. Then again the yard appear happy with him. Doubt I'll have a bet, but Fame's participation may make Sariska the value.
 
Not that much more, but a little bit for sure, and should be ahead of him in the betting, not twice the price.

I agree - I can't imagine Ballydoyle will beat Steinbeck up to win; either he'll do it well, or will be given a tender, 'educational' ride.

I agree about Godolphin two year olds, but will reserve judgement, as they have an awful lot of maiden winners who could be anything stepped up. However, the ones they have stepped up have been somewhat disappointing - I think we saw the limit of Vale of York's ability between Ascot and Italy; Buzzword will be reduced to soft Group 3 or perhaps an Italian Group 1 next year.

I do retain a lot of faith in Poet's Voice, and can only think the reason they ran him in the middle park is because they have Al Zir for the Dewhurst. What did you make of his run in the middle park?

Sand Vixen has looked really promising, and should do well at 5f.

Overall, much better at the top level is clearly needed.
 
Marcus Tregoning's Mawatheeq has been supplemented for the Champion Stakes at a cost of £30,000 (17 possibles).
 
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SteveM said:
Marcus Tregoning's Mawatheeq has been supplemented for the Champion Stakes at a cost of £30,000
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A knocking each-way bet in my book.

Agree with Hamm, looks like Fame needs about 2 miles, anyone backing him at 11/10 over this trip is a braver man than I. I'd even consider a place lay if he goes off a stupid price. If the rain comes then I'd suspect Sariska will finish infront of him.
 
Sariska won't beat Never on Sunday. I just don't get the fuss, the Oaks hasn't worked out, the Irish version was a joke race and she was beaten handily at York. The ground excuse is bullshit. I don't think Bell knows what he's doing with a good 3yo after high summer - look at how Motivator went in the tank.
 
Euronymous said:
Sariska won't beat Never on Sunday. I just don't get the fuss, the Oaks hasn't worked out, the Irish version was a joke race and she was beaten handily at York. The ground excuse is bullshit. I don't think Bell knows what he's doing with a good 3yo after high summer - look at how Motivator went in the tank.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't rate the animal highly at all but she'll be better suited to 1m2f in soft ground than Fame will be.
 
Looking at what has worked out in another way, how have the horses behind Fame and Glory ran (the non-staying RVW in the Derby aside)?

Mourayan - disappointing winless season; best performance was second in a Group 3.
Fergus McIver - winless; finishing down the field in listed races at present
Golden Sword - Sold as he was judged not to be good enough by the Coolmore team

Sariska has the same chance of winning as FAG on a line through Dar re mi. She is also the more likely of the two to be better at 1m2 (Fame needing 1m6).

Again, I think the Irish Champion shows how ratings can cause confusion by assuming certain horses ran their races and thereby alloting ratings on the basis of that; it was a canter for Sea the Stars; the Irish Champion needs to be significantly downgraded, as there is simply no way Fame and Glory is anywhere near a 130+ horse over 1m2.
 
Euronymous said:
Sariska won't beat Never on Sunday. I just don't get the fuss, the Oaks hasn't worked out, the Irish version was a joke race and she was beaten handily at York. The ground excuse is bullshit. I don't think Bell knows what he's doing with a good 3yo after high summer - look at how Motivator went in the tank.
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You are judging him just on his handling of Motivator. It's hard to say he has done much wrong with Sariska, as the ground was clearly too fast at York, and he has waited to ensure he won't make the same mistake again; nothing wrong with that.
 
What evidence are you using to support your belief that Rip Van Winkle was a non-stayer in the Derby, and Mastercraftsman a non-stayer in both the Juddmonte International and Irish Champion Stakes?
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Define "worked out" in the context of a race where three of the first four came out and won Group 1s and the well beaten 5th won a Group 2?
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Well, I opposed Sariska with Da Re Mi at York because everyone was seeming to rate Midday's run at Goodwood as evidence that it was top notch form. Whereas for me her main rivals that day didn't like the conditions. It was a very soft race - as was the one Rainbow View won.

Sariska is in with the boys now and i'd want a lot more eveidence than is currently available. She's also been on the go since April - a very bad sign for a filly.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
What evidence are you using to support your belief that Rip Van Winkle was a non-stayer in the Derby, and Mastercraftsman a non-stayer in both the Juddmonte International and Irish Champion Stakes?
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For the first one, it is widely accepted by just about everyone in racing; he was ridden to get the trip and when this happens, it massively compromises a horse's chances of winning. I can't seriously believe you think he stays 1m4.

I don't believe Mastercraftsman stays 1m2, and tried to convey that was my opinion, not a statement of fact. The only fact is it is impossible to prove whether any horse stays any distance. I believe he is a non-stayer due to how he finishes his races over 1m2, and with the insight provided by Oxx that STS was not 100% and the fact Kinane took a tug before winning comfortably, is for me, some evidence he does not truly stay 1m2, and is much better at a mile.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Will be disappointed if he doesn't go close. His run at Deauville is a worry though.
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I backed him for that and then read in the Post that the trainer was using the race as a stepping stone as he didn't see him as a miler. A bit of a weird choice of race as a prep for this given the gap between the two races.
 
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