Cheltenham Bumper
- Thread starter trackside528
- Start date
On The Bridle
At the Start
Heard the same before his first run - he was slaughtered into 4/1 from 10's but looks like he ran into one. That race at the weekend is usually pretty decent.
On The Bridle
At the Start
Roddy Owen
At the Start
What about Brian Hamiltons Moscow Mannon chaps,trounced the Mullins trained Morning Royalty at Gowran. Bit of a feature in the RP today?
We've noticed him, Roddy. He has the best form of any bumper horse so far this season, and almost certainly better than any form from last season. In spite of the worry I mentioned I've had a few quid on at 16/1 and 14s still available.
Roddy Owen
At the Start
Thought he wouldnt have been missed:lol:
links781
Journeyman
Gevrey Chambertin warm favourite for the bumper tomorrow at Newbury.If its anything like they think,it should s@@@ up here and I would be surprised if they won't be tempted by champion bumper......contrary to what they are saying.
Very big "lay" prices 1000/1
Well there goes my only ante post bet on Vrai Vert.......shite:thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
The Pipe horse won't be winning at the festival either........also thought Scu was rather exposed between AP and Dickie.
Don't think I saw the festival bumper winner there
The Pipe horse won't be winning at the festival either........also thought Scu was rather exposed between AP and Dickie.
Don't think I saw the festival bumper winner there
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
Amazing, it was an awful fall.
Very Very Ordinary
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2010
- Messages
- 327
Why did TS stop riding before the line? I thought the horse had gone lame - did he (the rider) mistake the winning post?
No....he's useless....if the horse can't win by itself, he won't make it win...The Pipe outfit. "Still Martin" want a jockey now who won't let them down
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Bar the Bull
At the Start
Tell me who to back, Grey.
The Champion bumper is not like any other because almost every horse is just outside their comfort zone from the start and off the bridle from a long way out. Therefore I think it's best to look for horses that have won against good opposition in a battle rather than quickened away from a weak field in the closing stages of a race.
For that reason I would pass over Royal Guardsman, who looked very good today, and all the other wide margin winners we have seen. That is a percentage call, of course, because such horses do sometimes win.
I may have been too quick to say the winner would not come from yesterday's Newbury bumper. Shutthefrontdoor outstayed a field containing plenty of previous winners in a decent time , he was doing his best work at the end and the hill at Cheltenham should suit.
The other horse I like is Moscow Mannon, winner of three bumpers in Ireland. Last time out he was the decisive winner in a very decent time against a Mullins odds on shot which had been the 17L winner of his previous outing. His last two wins have been on testing ground but his pedigree suggests better ground should be a help rather than a hindrance and he has scope and pace. The two question marks against him concern his inexperienced rider and his highly strung temperament but overall he has the strongest form of any horse going into the race and 10-1 seems a fair price.
links781
Journeyman
I was quite taken with Royal Guardsman,travelled well and nice turn of foot to pull clear.willl be interesting what the Nichols horse does at Taunton nto.Also like Moscow Mannon and piqué sous.bloody minefield!!
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Bar the Bull
At the Start
Bloody hell, Grey. I asked for a tip, not your life story.
Inexperienced rider and highly strung temperament. Sounds like a suitable poster boy for this forum.
I'm in.
Inexperienced rider and highly strung temperament. Sounds like a suitable poster boy for this forum.
I'm in.
treetangle
At the Start
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2009
- Messages
- 290
I haven't been on here since putting up Cue Card a couple of years ago but I couldn't let you get away with misleading people.
How on earth do you know that was a weak field Royal Guardsman beat? Fact is you don't so it is wrong to give the impression you do. There were several horses strongly fancied and he could just as easily have demolished a very strong field because he just happens to be potentially one of the best young horses around. Yes, sometimes horses don't find for pressure but that wasn't the case yesterday when he stretched clear when the jockey asked him to win his race. Returning from a long absence he couldn't have been more impressive and if he goes to Cheltenham he goes there with a very good chance of giving the stable a second win in three years.
The Irish form is built up every year. Week after week seemingly Willie Mullins produces his best bumper horse - he must have had about 23 this year - and punters just fall for it. Many of the Irish bumpers are very uncompetitive, small fields dominated by one or two stables. The value lies in ignoring the over hyped Irish brigade. What exactly has Moscow Mannon done to warrant being declared the form pick? Yes, he has trounced one of the 23 on soft ground - his form on quicker grounds adds up to very little.
Are you sure you read what I actually said?
I didn't say Royal Guardian beat a weak field yesterday. I said he looked very good but I would pass over him and all the other wide margin winners we've seen in favour of something that's come through a battle. And I said it was a percentage call because, like you say, I don't know exactly what he beat yesterday.
I didn't build up the Irish form, I said the Newbury race on Friday was probably a decent race and the winner should be respected.
I do like Moscow Mannon, though. You ask what he has achieved? He has won three bumpers. In Ireland that means a lot because bumper winners are very restricted in which races they can run. Unlike the UK, the majority of bumpers are not open to them. They have to run in winners bumpers, of which there are only a handful during the season. And even then they have to carry a penalty, or in the case of Moscow Mannon at Gowran, even a double penalty. The horse he beat at Gowran, Morning Royalty was the 17L winner of a Leopardstown bumper on his previous run, and his victim that day, Ted Veale, was himself the winner of his net outing. That surely gives the form some kind of meaning.
Your final point, that his form on quicker ground adds up to very little, is true. But if you take that attitude to every young Irish horse coming over to England you are going to miss out on an awful lot of winners because normally they don't get to run on such ground during the winter months. I do think his pedigree though gives him a chance of doing just as well on good ground.
I didn't say Royal Guardian beat a weak field yesterday. I said he looked very good but I would pass over him and all the other wide margin winners we've seen in favour of something that's come through a battle. And I said it was a percentage call because, like you say, I don't know exactly what he beat yesterday.
I didn't build up the Irish form, I said the Newbury race on Friday was probably a decent race and the winner should be respected.
I do like Moscow Mannon, though. You ask what he has achieved? He has won three bumpers. In Ireland that means a lot because bumper winners are very restricted in which races they can run. Unlike the UK, the majority of bumpers are not open to them. They have to run in winners bumpers, of which there are only a handful during the season. And even then they have to carry a penalty, or in the case of Moscow Mannon at Gowran, even a double penalty. The horse he beat at Gowran, Morning Royalty was the 17L winner of a Leopardstown bumper on his previous run, and his victim that day, Ted Veale, was himself the winner of his net outing. That surely gives the form some kind of meaning.
Your final point, that his form on quicker ground adds up to very little, is true. But if you take that attitude to every young Irish horse coming over to England you are going to miss out on an awful lot of winners because normally they don't get to run on such ground during the winter months. I do think his pedigree though gives him a chance of doing just as well on good ground.
As I posted a few weeks ago Sizing Gold is considered to be the next star from Knockeen however I am told that Paul Flynn fancies Admiral Barton.de Bromheads could be a superstar but Flynns horse is more likely to be at his peak today.