Cheltenham Gold Cup 2015

Desert Orchid said:
It still bugs me that I punted OHO in two Nationals (12 & 13) when he was off 148, after which they concluded he didn't like the fences. They clearly knew they had a Gold Cup class horse thrown in at the weights.
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Only his Thyestes win in 2014 off top weight opened WPM's eyes as to the relation of OHO's ability, his win a carbon copy of his 2012 win off 123.
As he said then "All the good Dreaper horses won the Thyestes off top weight from the front"; that is the barometer in Irish racing.
Tom Dreaper on C4 yesterday compared the Thyestes to the Newbury Hennessey, the first person I heard do that.
It makes sense to me now where it would not have a few years ago.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Would that be the same caution that told you Djakadam couldn't possibly have run to a mark in excess of 160 in the Thysetes (in which the well beaten third Goonyella just came out and pished up in the Midlands National)? :)
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Are you messaging this from your yacht in Monte Carlo, DO?

If not, you're not good enough to be giving out to me. And I see right through your smilies, so away you go and play with yourself, you geriatric fu*cking tit.
 
Can you use Silviniaco Conti as a yardstick based on consistent performances on flatter tracks and would that show he just doesn't get home over 3m2f, doesn't act at Cheltenham or has only been beating non stayers (Cue Card, Dynaste, Champagne Fever, Al Ferof as 4 examples)?? He's a strange horse and one I got wrong previously. I didn't rate him at all but he seemed to have improved and then I backed him at Haydock and Kempton and was quite impressed but really didn't fancy him for the Gold Cup. How do his times rate for the Haydock and Kempton races? He was beaten early and folded up like a cheap deckchair when push came to shove in the Gold Cup. If he is/was the highest rated chaser in training then where does that put Coneygree, Djakadam and Road To Riches now? Do you think the success of Coneygree will tempt more trainers to take the Gold Cup route in the future instead of the RSA?
 
This forum is bleeding bonkers at times :D

A few on here just need to take a breath, stop taking things personal and try and stop looking for things that aren't there.

I post regular on some football forums where it's relentless **** taking and abuse, but I've never known any forum where the tiniest thing can get blown up like it does on here at times.

It's like being at one of my family gatherings...

Ps. Before anyone takes this the wrong way (!), it's just an observation and I wouldn't change a thing :cool:
 
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I know this has been touched on by others and apologies if repeating anything previoulsy said.....

Cracking race and great performance by the winner but will this be it for Coneygree and his challengers?

The Gold Cup is a very hard race for horses and seems to blunt future development and form of horses.

Looking back at previous Gold Cups hardly anything from the winners and placed horses comes out and continues to dominate. There are a few exceptions obviously Deman, Kauto Star and Long Run just 3 off the top of my head in recent years. But plenty of good horses have suffered since Bob's Worth and Sir Des Champs from 2013 been the obvious ones.

Coneygree will be 9 next year and although lightly raced due to injury may have just given the best performance of his career and probably will never repeat this performance again. Conditions this year were perfect but will he get them again? Do hope I am proved wrong! but think we may at the most get one more big race from him another hard race will be the end for him.

Djakadam will be 7 next year but that was a hell of a run this year from a 6yo but how much has that taken out of him! Hit the last and drifted in the final yards of the race. Gave everything and does have time on his side but again could take a long time to recover. Needs to be campaigned next year in some soft Irish races really does not need another race as hard as the Gold Cup.

Road To Riches will be also 9 next year and for me another that had a gruelling race. Again difficult to see that he will repeat that sort of performance again. Just to far a distance for me for this horse.

Next year with the right sort of prep Djakadam could be a real contender, Coneygree if taking in the Hennessey or Betfair Chase, King George on route could be finished by then and Road To Riches likely to have similar campaign to this year taking in the Lexus on route but will find the extra 2.5 furlongs to much.

And the 4th Holywell? I would be looking at the 2016 Grand National and sure Jonjo can get his mark down. Plenty of stamina but not the pace to go with the leaders this year. Not likely to be any different next year.

Next year the ones to concentrate on will be 2nd season chasers or any novices that could emerge over the winter months (as per Coneygree who may prove to be an exception).

At this stage not going to highlight any horse, far to early for that but already looking forward to the 2016 Gold Cup!
 
i would put this quite simply

I am far from convinced and will not be convinced by figures that all of the first three horses home in the Gc are "better" animals than Denman.

Denman is a horse that managed to out run and beat the finest staying chaser since Desert Orchid and maybe Arkle. That is the achievement that sticks in the mind not some time rating. Also as well the three performed they finished quite close together. That isnt a final determinator but hard to believe that we suddenly have three post war greats, especially as none of them have shown brilliant rather than very good form before

I am also not at all sure that any of the top three would win a Hennessey of the given mark.In fact my fear is that at least one will not go through that barrier again in racing. The trainers are going to have to work some magic to ensue they do
 
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Smarty
This is a question that we will just have to wait and see. Was a gruelling race and one that could leave its mark. Hopefully they all come back to top form as next years race will be some spectacle.
Of the runners this year Djakadam would have the scope to improve more than the others I think. Ultimately in a test such as severe as last Friday, I think the age of Djakadam was probably more crucial than the novice status of Coneygree who is 8.
Throw in Don Poli who my head tells me is the winner of next years race. The doubt would be that maybe on better ground he could find himself further back than ideal as he does race a bit lazily. Someone like Vautour could just take him out of his comfort zone. I do think the key for Vautour is decent ground over this trip as there must be a slight doubt over stamina. Don't see 3m being an issue but the remaining could be. On soft ground the likes of Coneygree, Don Poli and Djakadam could grind him down. On better ground RTR could have even more of a say also.
Loads of questions that will be answered in time.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Are you messaging this from your yacht in Monte Carlo, DO?

If not, you're not good enough to be giving out to me. And I see right through your smilies, so away you go and play with yourself, you geriatric fu*cking tit.
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I'm sorry Grass..but thats out of order

If i made a post like that..there would be your mates coming on here saying i needed to see a shrink..I see you have got away with it though

not much consistency of view or fairness is there?

clique?..yes there is on this forum..totally biased i'm afraid..behaviour by some is acceptable..behaviour that is totally condemned if others post in that way
 
Aragorn said:
It is getting a bit much lately and all a bit too hormonal. You should all calm the f*ck down...
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if you are going to take the time to post..then why not name the people who you are addressing..that way we can sort things out

letting someone insult somebody or purposely p1ss on a post gets left alone..but as soon as someone defends themselves..its..ohh calm down everybody

its those that have no respect for others that need criticising..not the criticised defending themselves
 
could genuinely envisage a scenario where mullins lobs 5 or 6 in the race next year

wonder if sir des champs will be back
 
I've heard a rumour that, from next year, the charity race is to be replaced by another mares' race but I believe it's pencilled in as a novice hurdle.
 
archie said:
I've heard a rumour that, from next year, the charity race is to be replaced by another mares' race but I believe it's pencilled in as a novice hurdle.
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The Charity Race is getting dropped. But there is no way they can run a hurdle or chase race at that time on the Thursday. Far too dark.
 
Digger said:
The Charity Race is getting dropped. But there is no way they can run a hurdle or chase race at that time on the Thursday. Far too dark.
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Unless Thursdays are darker than other days of the week I don't see why not! The charity race is run at the same time as the Grand Annual on the Friday and the novice chase on the Tuesday.

If they do add another genuine race on the Thursday it only needs them to find another two races to justify the dreaded 5 day festival. They'll just nick a race from each day to make it a 6 race card over the 5 days. A veterans race and a 2m 5f championship hurdle race immediately spring to mind.
 
clivex said:
I am also not at all sure that any of the top three would win a Hennessey of the given mark.In fact my fear is that at least one will not go through that barrier again in racing. The trainers are going to have to work some magic to ensue they do
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Totally agree in regard to the Hennessey..........all would need to be capable of putting in an even better performance than in the Gold Cup. Always a few horse's entered that are better than there handicap rating. Although not all will run to there maximum ability, last year there were quite a few who in hindsight had a lenient mark.
 
TheBear said:
If they do add another genuine race on the Thursday it only needs them to find another two races to justify the dreaded 5 day festival. They'll just nick a race from each day to make it a 6 race card over the 5 days. A veterans race and a 2m 5f championship hurdle race immediately spring to mind.
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Sshhhhhhhh... don't give them ideas!
 
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