Coronavirus

I visited a small coastal town today to get a stretch of the legs and a bit of sea air. The place looked pretty normal, almost busy, but some of the coffee shops were only doing stuff 'to go'.

The big supermarket looked pretty well stocked based on an admittedly cursory glance and I didn't see any evidence of stockpiling at the checkouts.

It was all very normal.

I would like to think if we up here in Scotland take things as seriously as the likes of London, we might get off lightly. In terms of square mileage, Scotland isn't that much smaller than England but has only a tenth of the population. When I was a kid, Glasgow had a population of over 1m; now it's down to about 600,000. We don't really live on top of each other as people do in London.We are much more demographically distanced. That might help us.

The enemy is complacency and the pathetic 'wha's like us?' so prevalent among the average compatriot. Some people will presume they're just not going to get it and if they do so what. It's a dangerous attitude.

I'm taking no chances. I've been social-distancing pretty much all my life so should find it pretty easy to continue to do so. .
 
Up here the supermarkets haven't been too bad, late last week it was mental and you couldn't buy anything, but got bread, milk etc on Tuesday no problem. Today was in Morrisons, plenty of bread, milk, eggs, water, nappies, wipes, joints of meat, freezers not full, but not empty either.
Aldi, same as Morrisons, but also had flour, some packs of paracetomol (not loads left though), loads of toilet rolls, plenty of sliced meat, microwave meals, fruit, veg etc.
Local grocers had plenty of stuff on the shelves.

Only things I couldn't have bought between the 2 shops today was hand wash/gel.
Local shops like Premier, Nisa, corner shops etc all had stock of toilet rolls etc too.
 
Up here the supermarkets haven't been too bad, late last week it was mental and you couldn't buy anything, but got bread, milk etc on Tuesday no problem. Today was in Morrisons, plenty of bread, milk, eggs, water, nappies, wipes, joints of meat, freezers not full, but not empty either.
Aldi, same as Morrisons, but also had flour, some packs of paracetomol (not loads left though), loads of toilet rolls, plenty of sliced meat, microwave meals, fruit, veg etc.
Local grocers had plenty of stuff on the shelves.

Only things I couldn't have bought between the 2 shops today was hand wash/gel.
Local shops like Premier, Nisa, corner shops etc all had stock of toilet rolls etc too.

Sunderland the only place with food on the shelves,why such a descrepancy i don't get it got 3 delivery dates for ours and i reckon we will get next to nothing can't even get any bread..
 
Not questioning your attitude to the lady G-G, but it strikes me as unfair that checkout staff on or near the minimum wage are being asked to police this rationing, which can only add to the stress they're under. Human nature being what it is I feel sure some/many will have suffered abuse from those hoping to buy armfuls of an item. IMO supermarkets really need to employ extra security to aid checkout staff

I totally agree there needs to be some serious 'policing' of it, but also of the supermarkets increasing their prices for no reason. A lady at work said her niece was physically attacked in a national supermarket where they have facial recognition at the entrance, so having thrown out the said git ,they had the means to stop them getting back in, but I doubt most have that sort of facility. It's shameful quite frankly. Not a lot of community spirit going on with either side. I know he's not going to suffer without carrots, one of the very few fresh veg they actually had. I would have a huge guilt trip though. No sweetcorn or apple sauce for him either.
 
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Supermarkets could do a lot worse than stripping out some of the shelves they've got dedicated to non-food items like electrical goods for instance and putting food on them

They could also redesign to put food nearer the front too rather than adhering to the layouts they have which are designed to trail past a whole load of 'impulse' buy items to get to the food area
 
Senior French journo briefed that Macron phoned PM on Friday and said that if UK did not impose serious shutdown measures, French would have no choice but to close border to travellers from UK, & were ready to do so Friday. Says Elysee refers to UK policy as “benign neglect''.
Boris Johnson initiated a partial shutdown only after Macron threatened to close the border, warning that the rest of Europe would follow suit. “We clearly had to threaten him so that he would finally move.

This man has cost lives could be numerous,first delays of three weeks then this above after wanting to carry on with herd ammunity,i have been following this closely and to me it looks like it has been massively underestimated we could be looking at thousands of deaths and this person who hasn't got a clue what's going on he's a complete menace..He needs to be removed anyone just anyone but him,in several weeks we are going to see the damage he has caused..
 
This man has cost lives could be numerous,first delays of three weeks then this above after wanting to carry on with herd ammunity,i have been following this closely and to me it looks like it has been massively underestimated we could be looking at thousands of deaths and this person who hasn't got a clue what's going on he's a complete menace.


I heard a pertinent comment on the radio this morning (attributed to an unnamed civil servant) that correctly pointed out that if you want evidence of how badly the government under-estimated this, just remember that only six days ago Rishi Sunak unveiled budget that was heralded as a coronavirus busting investment that amounted to some £30Bn. Within a week he's been forced into increasing this to £300Bn and hasn't stopped yet.

Also worth noting is that in the name of transparency Downing Street provided the media with a document drop 48 hours that the notes to editors subtly suggested that they need to remember they were following an emergency plan laid down in 2011 by David Cameron (is there anything this man touched that didn't turn to ****?) but the editors clearly felt this was the first sign of Johnson preparing the ground to blame someone else (a Trump theme of course)

Something we perhaps need to remember about Johnson (and Cameron for that matter) is that they both come from a tradition of pioneering amateurism. That is to say they're traditional public school and Oxford boys who think they can achieve heroic endeavours with the right spirit. At its best this amateurism can be endearingly eccentric, at its worst, its foolhardy stupidity. It's the sort of thing that leads people to climb Everest in tweed jackets and hobnail boots, or reach south pole using horses. Every now then of course, they might succeed and achieve something remarkable, but more often than not this pioneering spirit of exploration ends in disaster.

We'd need to know a lot more about the options papers that Johnson was given, but if he were given four choices, one of which was presented as being controversial, and largely untried anywhere other than Britain, he'd be disproportionately inclined to select it precisely because of this reason.

It was rather telling that the government only reversed their decision with the intervention of the Ferguson team from Imperial College London. It does beg the question of just what Messers Vallance and Witty have been doing. Even I can crudely work this out (and did so a month ago by simply looking at data)


As of this morning, our official figure is 74 infections per million people. This equates to 0.0074% of the population

We've currently got a deaths to infection rate of 4.6% which is one of the highest in Europe (that figure is worth a separate examination too)

To reach 60% we have to witness an increase to 600,000 infections per million. Just dwell on that. We're currently at 74, but need to get to 600,000

That means it's got to get 8000 times worse/ bigger
than it currently is
(bigger is probably a better description than worse). This was the policy that Johnson was following

Even if we were able to hold 4.6% mortality rates (and we wouldn't be able to on that level of infection), we'd be looking at about 3m deaths
 
And still Johnson just politely asks people to still enjoy themselves outside but do it at a distance. How long before the police and army have to control this? I give it a couple of days.
 
And still Johnson just politely asks people to still enjoy themselves outside but do it at a distance. How long before the police and army have to control this? I give it a couple of days.

Utter wankers,i have the feeling it's not just China that's going to be hiding the death toll,should be a lockdown now just getting ridiculous my partner has to go to wor in council offices with hundreds of people,with me and my son high risk,trying to drag it out creating more infactions.If you look at places like the midlands cases gradually growing places like birmingham had 8 cases now 94 will be a thousand in no time,it seems to be everywhere,..

Never trust the tories.
 
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If we thought our health service was prepared for the coronavirus, the past few days have brought a shattering reality.

Here, in a chilling dispatch from the front line, one doctor recounts the moment Covid-19 struck and overwhelmed a major London hospital – and how doctors and nurses watched helplessly as patients died an excruciating death...

Have you ever seen someone gasping for their last breaths? Not many have, but for those who have experienced it, you never forget the horror. I wish I could forget all the faces of the dying I saw last week.

The look of panic across every face, the chugging sound people make as they desperately try, and fail, to get oxygen in their lungs. It doesn't leave you.

I have been a doctor for more than a decade. In that time, I thought I had seen everything there was to see. But nothing could have prepared me for the terror that coronavirus would unleash.

If we thought our health service was prepared for the coronavirus, the past few days have brought a shattering reality. Pictured: an Italian doctor tends to a coronavirus patient in Lombardy +5
If we thought our health service was prepared for the coronavirus, the past few days have brought a shattering reality. Pictured: an Italian doctor tends to a coronavirus patient in Lombardy

It was just after lunchtime on Saturday when the nightmare began. The siren sounded on my pager to tell me a patient had had a respiratory arrest and I rushed across the hospital to attend a man in his 70s with Covid-19 whose heart had stopped beating.

What I was met with when I arrived was sheer panic. The staff, through no fault of their own, were hesitant in exactly how we should respond.

It was an early indication of how grossly under-prepared as a country we are for treating this virus. The compressions to resuscitate him proved futile.

Along with two nurses, a senior doctor and an anaesthetist, who was managing his airway, we were powerless as Covid-19 cruelly claimed a victim right before us.

He was gasping for breath with every ounce of life that he could muster. I could see the terror in his eyes. He knew.

This was compounded by the terror in the faces of the staff present. They are all brilliant colleagues, respected professionals who have, like me, been doing their jobs for a long time. There shouldn't have been any fear for them. But there was. I could see it. And I felt overcome with it, too.

I am a senior medical doctor covering all wards including high dependency at a busy hospital in London. We're used to being stretched and working long shifts without breaks to deal with any number of emergencies that come through the door every day. But last Saturday was different.

Yes, we knew that the virus was coming but we weren't prepared for this. A few hours before the first Covid-19 death at the hospital, we were suddenly forced to restructure our wards to accommodate the vast numbers of sufferers who were being admitted in critical conditions.

Besides the far more aggressive lung disease Covid-19 has the ability to cause, its ability to spread totally differentiates it from any flu +5
Besides the far more aggressive lung disease Covid-19 has the ability to cause, its ability to spread totally differentiates it from any flu

I am a doctor. I am trained to block out the inner voice of panic that comes to all of us in times of extreme stress. But there was no blocking out this time. There it was, bellowing at me continuously: 'Oh my God, what is happening?'

We knew this man was just the first one we would see die in this excruciating manner. The child in me was thinking: 'If only I can save him, perhaps all those people piling up in our wards will be OK, too.' But this, of course, is real life. Not a children's story.

As he cruelly slipped away, my heart sank. There was no time to dwell, though. For we soon had a full ward of sufferers. What's more, despite restructuring the wards to ensure there was room for the coronavirus sufferers and that they would be totally isolated, it soon became apparent that the virus was already rampaging throughout the hospital.

Not long after his death, my pager went off to attend someone on a regular ward who had taken a turn. Lying in an open bay, they were burning up with a serious fever. I could cry thinking about it.

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This individual had been admitted to hospital for something totally unrelated and now, here, lying before me, it was clear they had caught the virus in the very place they had every reason to expect would help them get better.

My eyes darted around the ward. He was surrounded by other beds full of patients, as well as nurses and doctors who were not protected – myself included.

At this point I had been working for nine hours straight on an empty stomach, having only taken one toilet break. There would be no let-up. For he was merely the first discovery.

Almost simultaneously sufferers began popping up, as my pager's siren went into overdrive. I rushed between wards, attending to alerts coming from all over the hospital.

With each new discovery, all I could hear was my inner voice screaming louder with each new discovery: 'No, no, no, no. Please God, no.'

As a doctor you should be saving lives. But for the first time in my career I have to face the fear that as a doctor I could be a silent killer +5
As a doctor you should be saving lives. But for the first time in my career I have to face the fear that as a doctor I could be a silent killer

For some of the population, I realise that this must be hard to comprehend. According to one graphic I have seen shared on social media, Covid19 is little worse than the winter flu. But let me tell you, it is so very much worse.

Besides the far more aggressive lung disease it has the ability to cause, its ability to spread totally differentiates it from any flu.

Many of you reading this might have assumed that the virus is only serious for those with 'underlying health issues'. It is a clever term, for it works to distance many of us from it. Yet I have seen first-hand how quickly it spreads.

I lost count of the number of times I have found sufferers in different wards. Any hope we'd had of keeping Covid-19 sufferers separate from the rest of our patients became almost totally blurred as the influx just became greater, and greater, and greater. You instinctively know it is the coronavirus. There is no mistaking it.

Patients who come in for totally different reasons do not just suddenly develop high fevers. When we think it's likely that someone is suffering from the virus on a non-isolated ward, we take them to a side room and swab them.

It takes two days to get the results, which provides another logistical challenge.

While we wait for test results the patient can't return to a normal ward in case they have the virus, but they can't be moved in with Covid-19 sufferers in case they don't.

Me? I am asymptomatic, but I have been exposed to it – frequently. I am, therefore, most likely carrying it, as are most medics up and down the country.

Absurdly, I have not been afforded a test – and the NHS's approach for staff is that until you have symptoms you don't self-isolate. Why? Because we simply do not have enough staff for them to be disappearing before symptoms appear, regardless of whether they are likely carrying it or not.

As a doctor you should be saving lives. But for the first time in my career I have to face the fear that as a doctor I could be a silent killer. I have no choice but to block out that fear and just get on with it.

Towards the end of last week, it became apparent that there is very little we can do to halt the spread of this aggressive and unrelenting virus. Many patients simply do not respond to treatment and oxygen masks and we are left with no choice but to make them 'comfortable'.

Once a patient is in a critical condition with this virus, there is never more than a couple of hours before it kills +5
Once a patient is in a critical condition with this virus, there is never more than a couple of hours before it kills

Even with morphine and the sedative midazolam to help numb pain and ease breathing, the deaths have been excruciating. That is why I wish that I could forget last week, pretend it is some nightmare. But it isn't. It is now our new reality.

The virus has forced doctors to do something we should never have to do: play God.

Within the space of a few hours last Saturday, what I had known my job to be changed irrevocably. For we must now make ethical decisions on who to save and who to let die on a scale that no doctor alive today has ever faced.

I would love to say that those ethical decisions are made with time, patience, and care. But last week? It was as quick as can be. No doctor should be forced to choose between patients. But we now have no other choice.

It is never an easy task to tell someone's loved one their mother, father, wife or husband is not a candidate to go to intensive care because they have serious underlying health issues and, because of their old age, there is nothing we can do.

Italy has already stopped intubating patients over 60. Whenever you call a patient's family to let them know that their loved one is dying, the first response is usually 'How long?' followed by asking if they can see them.

Once a patient is in a critical condition with this virus, there is never more than a couple of hours before it kills. So far, we have been allowing individual visitors dressed in protective gear to say their final goodbyes, but for how much longer will this be the case if the death toll soars and protective equipment becomes in short supply?

Several times this week, families have unfortunately not accepted their loved ones' fate and pleaded with us to keep trying to fight the virus off. Those conversations stay with you.

+5
There are now close to 150 known sufferers in the hospital but I suspect it could be many times more than that. We are at breaking point, with virtually no space to treat those suffering. And this is barely the tip of the iceberg.

Little over a week on from that horrendous Saturday we are already on the cusp of declaring a critical incident, which means we physically have too many critical care patients and no room to take any more.

There is at least one other hospital where this has already happened. As medics, we are all petrified of what we face in the coming weeks and months. Are we prepared? No. We do not even have enough protective clothing.

These fears are compounded by the dangerous under-dressing of our staff because of shortages. And as for personal protective equipment, for some unknown reason Public Health England has said that it is fine for us to be wearing a surgical mask with air gaps rather than a full-protection mask with an air-filter system, a plastic apron and a pair of gloves.

That might sound like enough, but, in reality, we are reduced to flimsy, long-sleeve aprons (some doctors at other hospitals have even complained about wearing sleeveless aprons), and a mask with – effectively – holes in it.

Many saw the frightening scenes coming out of Italy's grossly overcrowded hospitals at the end of last week.

The brutal truth is that we are facing exactly the same immediate future here. The virus is wanton in its destruction.

Make no mistake, we are at breaking point and we are little more than a week in.

It feels like we are trying to play some sort of computer game and with each day we enter a new, harder level. We simply cannot keep up. How much worse will it get?

Truthfully, I shudder to think


Three weeks delay,mass infection lets hope some get justice especially these staff who are going to lose their lives if not permanent lungg damage,havn't read anything this horriffic in my lifetime this is insanity and still no lockdown..
 
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If the virus truly does "spread like wildfire" then that's the message that needs banging home by the government, the media and the NHS.
Little sign of such proclamations at the mo, but that might limit the spread of infection enough to begin to get to grips with it.
 
And still Johnson just politely asks people to still enjoy themselves outside but do it at a distance.

Give folk an inch and they'll take a mile. It was a big mistake to exempt takeaways when pubs, cafes etc were told to close on Friday. Images of queues outside fish n chip emporia at resorts, by 'closed' cafes-turned-takeaway, by chuckwagons in 'beauty spot' car parks... tells the tale

Vacillating, confused Johnson should close this loophole immediately and furthermore follow Germany's example of restricting outdoor gatherings to two people or family groups

No one needs pubs
No one needs cafes
No one needs restaurants
No one needs junk food
No one needs to drive to beauty spots
No one needs to herd

These are essentially the enjoyable but unnecessary superficial froth that rich western democracies permit

What we do NEED, crucially, is some fresh air and some exercise: alone or in pairs. Deny us that you "selfish wankers" (thanks Gigilo:)) and life will become very hard indeed
 
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On a slightly lighter note, if that's appropriate, below I've copied and pasted an email the brother sent out the other day.

I have to warn you, he finds it difficult to write serious stuff at the best of times! (It's a family trait, to be fair to him.) I've blanked out the names for privacy. But it illustrates that the virus is well and truly in our midst.

How are the vittles holding out? I trust you and (blank) are safely tucked up in your onesies and ploughing through a raft of jigsaws and jengas and gee and tees. (Blank) and (blank) have been rallying round with the comestibles in a concerted effort to keep the inmates in Stalag 17, but (blank)'s participation has ground to a halt. (Blank) has the corona virus.

They had already self isolated themselves since about Thursday when (blank) started to show symptoms, but she was deteriorating yesterday and (blank) phoned the quacks on call number last night and was told to go to the Victoria and tell them she was there on "coronavirus protocol" .

She said it was like a science fiction scenario. She had to wait in the car till they were ready for her, everybody was masked and suited up, there wasn't a non medical soul to be seen, when usually the waiting room on a Friday night is festooned with southside punters sporting skint faces and daggers sticking out their backs.

Within seconds of going back to the car, the three of them - (blank) had to go as well - were recalled and taken in to a special curtained off area and told not to poke their noses out. When (blank) started coughing under examination all these medicos jumped back about ten feet. The situation is that her vital signs were good enough for her to go home, and that they were only carrying out the official test on people who had to be admitted, but based on the examination they carried out they said she does have it, and she also has tonsillitis, which didn't help the situation.

They have to self isolate themselves - (blank) keeps slagging me for saying that - for 14 days starting today. Poor old (blank) was totally discumknockerated. He had been begging and pleading his mum, in a remarkable philosophical turnaround, to let him please, please, please go to school. So (blank) is now last man standing and will now need two ten foot poles to drop off the last items from the shelves in Aldo, probably three soft old potatoes with tubes and shoots springing out madly in all directions and eyes that follow you round the room, and a pair of deep sea diver's boots.



Well, we are about to overpower the guards and take a run down the coast and walk along the prom. A picnic in the car is on the cards for us also. I need petrol anyway so that will be a rubber gloves and anti-malarial dio-bigradable wipes job. (blank) would like me to wear a bigger mask, she can still see bits of my face sticking out, but the masks have never been made that would cover an O'Neill face. I will have to go back to the balaclava on back to front.


Two radiotherapies to go, finishing on Tuesday. Home free. After the Victoria we are running out of parks to visit. So busy. I am amazed how many people have such scant regard for the social distancing idea. I am thinking of taking a baseball bat with me from now on.

But I have been able to catch up on some reading and viewing, so silver lining. Latest gems: The Owl and the Pussycat, from the early 70's, still finding la streisand 's timing a joy to behold, and possibly the second or third picture (blank) and I ever went to together, when she was the luckiest spud in Glasgow, if memory fails me, and Ancient Light by John Banville which I am absolutely loving. I keep stopping to reread sentences and paragraphs and pages that I can't bear to leave behind, and then he goes and does it again on the very next page.



[FONT=Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif]So I have a good idea already in advance of what we are having for dindins because I am making it. (Blank) used one of her ten foot poles to fire medieval style a bag of her very own home made wild garlic pesto sauce from the gardens over the ramparts and onto our veranda, wild garlic picked by herself and (blank) yesterday. Oh! Here comes a skype type call from those very two! Quelle spooky que c'est! I will have to join in in case the wean forgets me![/FONT]
 
Bradford digging a thousand graves,i hope relatives are questioning hospitals when they come down with ''suspectred''pneumonis it seems a lot of deaths are not getting tested and relatives of these deaths are getting the same smyptoms..if they don't question them will never know and more spread..
 
Give folk an inch and they'll take a mile. It was a big mistake to exempt takeaways when pubs, cafes etc were told to close on Friday. Images of queues outside fish n chip emporia at resorts, by 'closed' cafes-turned-takeaway, by chuckwagons in 'beauty spot' car parks... tells the tale

Vacillating, confused Johnson should close this loophole immediately and furthermore follow Germany's example of restricting outdoor gatherings to two people or family groups

No one needs pubs
No one needs cafes
No one needs restaurants
No one needs junk food
No one needs to drive to beauty spots
No one needs to herd

These are essentially the enjoyable but unnecessary superficial froth that rich western democracies permit

What we do NEED, crucially, is some fresh air and some exercise: alone or in pairs. Deny us that you "selfish wankers" (thanks Gigilo:)) and life will become very hard indeed

As per Brendan O'neill talking his usual claptrap along with peter hitchens and of course all the middle ages older(white) gentlemen tory/brexiters agreeing,it's CHIN-NAHS EYE -TALIANS ISLAMISTS fault..you can add in the black community in their as well for all the looting and stabbings as well..The blame game being used already,whilst johnson squirms out of his ##herd community..after his policy causiing a catastrophe.
 
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What is hilarious is that those invoking the spirit of the blitz are the ones you would least like to have near you in a crisis.

Having a sister working as a doctor working in Aberdeen hospital, its unfortunate that the decent among you are outnumbered. She will hopefully have the opportunity to emigrate further afield in the near future. The overwhelming support for Johnson/Hancock/Gove/Rees-Mogg/Dorries/Hunt/Cummings and others clearly out for enriching themselves at the expense of the country is astounding. Ye are a rabble.

Ireland has its fair share of issues (its own docility actually is standing itself in good stead in the current crisis) but not sure how any one of those would be tolerated in a position of power. There was always a respect for the UK politicians in Ireland for having principles and resigning over issues that would be shoved onto civil servants in Ireland. I've never heard people so appreciative of PR as in the last election as first past the post leads to UK/US scenarios. I repeat, ye are a rabble.
 
What is hilarious is that those invoking the spirit of the blitz are the ones you would least like to have near you in a crisis.

Having a sister working as a doctor working in Aberdeen hospital, its unfortunate that the decent among you are outnumbered. She will hopefully have the opportunity to emigrate further afield in the near future. The overwhelming support for Johnson/Hancock/Gove/Rees-Mogg/Dorries/Hunt/Cummings and others clearly out for enriching themselves at the expense of the country is astounding. Ye are a rabble.

Ireland has its fair share of issues (its own docility actually is standing itself in good stead in the current crisis) but not sure how any one of those would be tolerated in a position of power. There was always a respect for the UK politicians in Ireland for having principles and resigning over issues that would be shoved onto civil servants in Ireland. I've never heard people so appreciative of PR as in the last election as first past the post leads to UK/US scenarios. I repeat, ye are a rabble.

I'd be amazed if the tories don't have the ''plebs working and schools back within two months''then start saying suspected cases are pneumonias..

Never trust the tories ever especially these ones with johnson and cummings.
 
Council here have told my partner to work from home from tomorrow,she's a new employee as well so not learnt the job yet,surely the lockdown is imminent..


Cuomo is New York is different gravy,can you imagine anyone in our government being so coherrent,also saying politically he could be finished he couldn't careless i've done the right thing pure class..
 
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Orchidette is a secondary school teacher. She's required to be at work to help with vulnerable children and children of key workers.

She says today there are 60 teachers and two pupils in the school.

I was worried that she was even asked to turn up as she's been trying to fend off cold symptoms and a cough for weeks now but she's maybe better off there rather than sitting at home in self-imposed isolation.
 
I do enjoy these threads on here.

Regardless of the deficiencies in the gov response/action I'd still rather have the current lot in charge than worzel and bomber McDonnell, they couldn't even decide on a Brexit position or a new leader yet, so I'm sure they'd have been so decisive...……

Blame the tories, republicans, anyone that isn't a card carrying leftie, rant against capitalism blah blah it's getting very student union , but the bottom line is that it started in China where thanks to their totalitarian socialist system over there they've had that many famines & that many millions die as a result, that everything goes in the pot as a matter of course and hey presto....
 
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I do enjoy these threads on here.

Regardless of the deficiencies in the gov response/action I'd still rather have the current lot in charge than worzel and bomber McDonnell, they couldn't even decide on a Brexit position or a new leader yet, so I'm sure they'd have been so decisive...……

Blame the tories, republicans, anyone that isn't a card carrying leftie, rant against capitalism blah blah it's getting very student union , but the bottom line is that it started in China where thanks to their totalitarian socialist system over there they've had that many famines & that many millions die as a result, that everything goes in the pot as a matter of course and hey presto....


Predictable 1.01 landed..
 
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