Derby weekend at the Curragh

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gearoid
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Powerscourt said:
The Stewards subsequently suspended Seville's jockey Seamis Heffernan for two days for using his whip with excessive frequency and not allowing his mount sufficient time to respond.
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If you look at the race again you'll notice he's using the whip but hardly moving his other arm - certainly in comparison to the winning rider. Different connections different result imo. But that's the danger in backing AOB's horses, especially on their home patch.
 
How do you know which one connections wanted to win? Treasure Beach was beaten in a nursery off 91 so is hardly a potential stallion or superstar.


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TB was obviously more fancied and was more rigorously rode. Stallion considerations probably don't enter into it. If it had been Carlton House challenging on his outside Seville's jockey would have ridden out a stronger finish.
 
Are you suggesting that Seamus Heffernan would rot ride a finish to gain the best possible finishing position on the basis that the Ballydoyle Mafia had a bet?



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Treasure Beach only looked like winning with 100 yards to go. I just don't see anything wrong with Heffernan's effort. The best horse in the formbook and on the day won, impossible to knock it. Having said that you're more than entitled to your opinion.
 
Swings and roundabouts. I backed Roderic in the 2000 and he only won because of the favourite getting a bad ride. Happens.
 
Gearoid said:
How do you know which one connections wanted to win? Treasure Beach was beaten in a nursery off 91 so is hardly a potential stallion or superstar.
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I'm sure somebody would be pleased to stand him given the opportunity.
He wasn't a precocious 2yr old thats all.
 
Gearoid,

How do you rate the Ballydoyle 3yo colts now, in light of the past couple of weeks?

I still think there is an element of truth to your belief that there are no superstars, but they seem to have a huge amount of strength-in-depth.
 
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Anyone like to put some figures to yesterday's race?

TREASURE BEACH runs to the same OR of 119 he was given for Epsom?

SEVILLE up a pound or three? (118)

MEMPHIS TENNESSEE 116?

CARLTON HOUSE 116?

Pretty moderate stuff.
 
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I would have thought TB ran to around 122/123 on the RPR scale, so 119 OR sounds about right.

You can reverse back from there. The front five seem to have run up to their best, with Carlton House possibly a pound or two below form.

Are people as certain now that CH stays 12f as they were before the Derby?
 
I think the Ballydoyle horses improved on the track and the more sensible pace. CH ran pretty much the same as Epsom. He stays, he's just not quite good enough.
 
I think if Joseph O'Brien was given the race to run again he might have won it. He was travelling as well as any turning in and waited for the others to come to him before getting at him. The horse took an age to react and momentum had him a couple of lengths back before he gradually started clawing back the ground. I'm not sure they'd have caught him if he'd really booted him on well before turning in.
 
Sheikh said:
I'm sure somebody would be pleased to stand him given the opportunity.
He wasn't a precocious 2yr old thats all.
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Of course... the form horse has won the Irish Derby quite cosily (there was no big surprise about it). He has won the Chester Vase from Nathaniel (a subsequent five-length winner of the Group 2 King Edward VII Stakes), been runner-up in the Derby and has now landed a Group 1 in Ireland. He’s by Galileo and will be given every opportunity to fulfil his potential.

He was giving a stone to the winner when runner-up in the Nursery handicap at Listowel last season and the winner Pirateer has since won a Listed race at the Curragh. There is nothing much wrong with the form of Treasure Beach. He has progressed as a good horse should and has every chance of securing a position at stud.
 
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He has a very nice pedigree. Obviously by a top sire, but his mother is a half sister to Indian Creek, who had a few top G1 placings and a Hardwicke win. He could make into a very nice sire, as he is tough, improves for every race and seems versatile in terms of tactics, trip and going.
 
I agree
he is not a superstar but is improving and has a very good attitude, at the moment is in a mark of 122/123 for me and could end the season being a 126 or 127.


there are good races to be won by him, GP, Paris or St Leger.
 
Good point Chronic Landlord.

Ballydoyle seem to have 12-13 very good horses this year.

So You Think
St. Nicholas Abbey
Fame and Glory
Await the Dawn
Zoffany
Treasure Beach
Seville
Recital
Memphis Tennessee
Misty for Me
Together
Wonder of Wonders

You can probably assume that Roderic O'Connor, Jan Vermeer and Cape Blanco will not be the #1 for any Group 1s in Ireland, France or the UK.

Where will they run? I will have a go:

So You Think - Eclipse, Juddmonte, Arc or Champion Stakes
St. Nicholas Abbey - King George, Foy, Arc
Fame and Glory - Goodwood Cup, Irish Leger, Staying race on Arc Day
Await the Dawn - Maybe Royal Whip, BC Classic...or Arlington Million, BC Classic.....or Woodward Stakes BC Clasic
Zoffany - Sussex, Moulin, BC Mile
Recital - Royal Whip, Irish Champion, BC Turf
Treasure Beach - GP de Paris, BC Turf or Irl / UK Leger
Seville - GP de Paris, BC Turf or Irl / UK Leger
Memphis Tennessee - Voltigeur, Leger
Misty for Me - Irish Oaks, Nassau, BC F&M Turf
Together Falmouth, Nassau
Wonder of Wonders Irish Oaks, Yorkshire Oaks, BC F&M Turf
 
I think his representation in the Irish Champion Stakes will be stronger, Bar. Your outline plan would have only Recital running in it, whereas he's likely to have another two running in it, maybe Treasure Beach and So You Think.
 
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