Dunguib

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Likely to make his hurdling debut before the end of the month - possibly at Galway. O'Connell is also due to keep the ride for the time being.

Looking at his price for the Supreme - generally between 5/2 - 3/1 - how many of us knew of Go Native or Mikhael D'haguenet this time last year? Cousin Vinny and Cork Allstar were both really impressive bumper winners (though not as visually impressive as Dunguib) that came up short the following year in the Supreme. Do we think this monster will follow the same path? Most bookmakers have Sweeps Hill and Rite Of Passage as the next in the betting - I am pretty sure they will not figure for the Supreme come the off of the big race.

Thoughts on this year's novices?
 
I'm waiting for news of one that ran once in a Bumper, showing form which subsequently proved to be very smart, but wasn't sighted again. If I hear anything - and get my cash down for the Supreme - I will share. :D

:ninja:
 
I was quite impressed by Dubguib last year, not in the manner that he won but that he had the size and scope to make a hurdler. As we all know, the problem with bumper horses is they tend to be precocious, like the two year olds, and that's as good as they are. Once the stronger types get going over hurdles they tend to shine through. I didn't fancy Cousin Vinny for the Supreme but have a better feeling about Dunguib. I wouldn't fancy Sweeps Hill or Rite of Passage and feel plenty will come out of the woodwork between now and March.
 
I fancied Dunguib for a long time before the Cheltenham bumper, and I had staked accordingly. He's a star in the making..can't wait to see him over hurdles:whistle:
 
Cantoris said:
As we all know, the problem with bumper horses is they tend to be precocious, like the two year olds, and that's as good as they are. Once the stronger types get going over hurdles they tend to shine through.
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I'm sorry but I can't have that view at all. What does tend to happen though is that as bumper horses are essentially stayers and future chasers, when they invariably get run in 2m hurdles they don't quite have the toe (unless they're very good) and can appear to be disappointing over hurdles as they need further and probably need time to mature still. Hurdling is often a stepping stone for these type of horses and it is often when they are sent novice chasing that they can regain the thread.
 
I'd agree with you Shads that there are types that win bumpers simply because they stay better than others. Florida Pearl is an example. And you find a lot of these types winning Irish bumpers at Naas and Navan. Tough tracks that suit stayers so I should have caveated my statement. But there are plenty of bumper horses that simply do not train on. You must remember that Irish bumpers are much more of a shop window than English bumpers and if you have a nice horse for sale, you get it fit and try to win first time in a bumper or point. John Kiely is a master of this and a lot of his horses simply do not train on, having been trained to the minute to do one job.....flash home impressively coming from twenty lengths off the pace and are sold minutes later. It is a mix of course.
 
Many 2m hurdlers don't go much further than 10f on the flat. A horse that gets 2m on the flat at a decent level of racing usually needs further than 2m when they go over jumps.

Dunguib might be an exception, though, because his turn of foot is really exceptional.
 
Yes, there are plenty of Irish bumpers - although not as many as their are Irish points - that are merely shop windows; although the winners are trained to the minute to sell it doesn't necessarily make them precocious types like two year olds though, not at all! If any sphere in jump racing is to be compared to precocious two year olds it would be the juvenile hurdling sphere or even possibly the juvenile bumpers for which the fashion seems to be heading towards giving a staying flat horse an easy win then reverting it to running on the flat thereafter.

Grey is of course right about the 2m hurdlers; it doesn't stop idiots claiming though that a horse wants to be running over 2m in hurdle races saying "but it's won over 2m already in bumpers"....arggh!!!

Of course there are also exceptions to the rule; Decoupage won a bumper, novice hurdles over 2m1f-2m4f, a G1 hurdle over 2m1f and a G2 novice chase over 2m, as well as coming 2nd in two Shell Champion Hurdles at Punchestown (once to the mighty Istabraq). But he was a supremely talented freak.
 
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What sort of size is Dunguib?

I've only seen him the once on the box and he looked on the small side for a NH horse.

I'm assuming some on here have seen him in the flesh, what were your opinions?
 
Couldn't tell you I'm afraid; despite waiting in the paddock with the esteemed AC for a long while specifically to look at the horse we discovered that he'd slipped out and down to post early. After the race I was too busy fighting the hordes to get out to get a look at him.
 
Dunguib-and-Brian-OConnel-001.jpg



Not a hefty horse
 
This is the best horse to graduate from bumpers in the last thirty years, and while he is very short for the Supreme, given that he will stay beyond two and a half miles in time, he is undeniably a huge talent. Just back him for the 2012 Gold Cup instead ;)
 
rorydelargy said:
This is the best horse to graduate from bumpers in the last thirty years, and while he is very short for the Supreme, given that he will stay beyond two and a half miles in time, he is undeniably a huge talent. Just back him for the 2012 Gold Cup instead ;)
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Now thats an ante post bet, what sort of odds and where would a man get facilitated??
 
rorydelargy said:
This is the best horse to graduate from bumpers in the last thirty years, and while he is very short for the Supreme, given that he will stay beyond two and a half miles in time, he is undeniably a huge talent. Just back him for the 2012 Gold Cup instead ;)
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Was there a better horse running in bumpers 30 years ago Rory? ;)
 
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