Epsom Derby 2012

I can't see that at all. I think getting within a couple of lengths of Frankel would enhance his reputation so why not? It would also add to Frankel's CV, and as the owner's of Galileo that's no bad thing for Coolmore either. They should be positive and think win win.
 
i think if he were mine i'd run him in the eclipse..then give him a warm him up for the leger

i think they want him unbeaten..but at end of day a loss to Frankel wouldn't ruin a triple crown...very few people mention Nijinsky's defeat in the Arc as being detrimental to his achievemnts
 
They will run Camelot in the Irish Derby, they are very loyal to Irish racing. Aidan and Joseph are currently at the Irish Derby launch at the Curragh.
 
They will run Camelot in the Irish Derby, they are very loyal to Irish racing. Aidan and Joseph are currently at the Irish Derby launch at the Curragh.

it will just be a glorified training gallop..AOB will half the field + would have thought

anyone that thinks the Leger is a waste of time should be viewing the running of him in the Irish Derby as even more so i would have thought
 
Last edited:
I've been saying that for years EC. It sometimes has a top class winner but is never a good race or field. And with the Eclipse so soon after...
 
Pretty much rules him out of the Eclipse if he runs in the Irish Derby.

..if he ran and won the eclipse..then they trained him for the Leger..he wins that and he has a G1 at 4 distances..one more distance than STS

we are only assuming Frankel runs in the Eclipse..he might not..who knows what can happen

i think they will miss a trick if they don't try the eclipse because a win in the Irish derby doesn't read as well as coming 2nd to the best horse in the world at 10f imo..others may think differently.....and if as some believe frankel doesn't deliver at 10f they would actually enhance the horses reputation immensely by having G1's at the 4 trips
 
EC

if he runs in the eclipse and is beaten a neck by Frankel his reputation is enhanced but if beaten by 7 lenghts not


about the different distances, once he is a classic winner over 12f and 8f, it doesnt enhance him to win in 10f



about the leger
if he beat a good field he would be regarded as versatil horse but if he is beaten is a big negative and if winning beating a bad field by a small margin it is not a positive



If I were the owner I would run Irish Derby , Niel and Arc.
 
EC

if he runs in the eclipse and is beaten a neck by Frankel his reputation is enhanced but if beaten by 7 lenghts not


about the different distances, once he is a classic winner over 12f and 8f, it doesnt enhance him to win in 10f



about the leger
if he beat a good field he would be regarded as versatil horse but if he is beaten is a big negative and if winning beating a bad field by a small margin it is not a positive



If I were the owner I would run Irish Derby , Niel and Arc.

cheers Suny

no point running at 10f at all then?..i see

well thats that then..no clash:(
 
Last edited:
ECif he runs in the eclipse and is beaten a neck by Frankel his reputation is enhanced but if beaten by 7 lenghts not
Is this how Derrick Smith see's it:)

You're suggesting here that he only takes part in guaranteed winnable races though aren't you? Or one where he can run Frankel to a neck? Ensuring a fixed winning sequence is deffo bottling it imo.
 
Last edited:
It's either the Irish Derby or Eclipse, he will go to the Irish Derby, SYT to Eclipse
It's either the Juddmonte or the Leger, he will go to the Leger, perhaps SNA to the Juddmonte.
Then the Arc.
The only remaining 10f is the Champion Stakes, probably the best chance for
a clash with Frankel.
 
The 're-match' between Brigadier Gerard and Mill Reef might have happened over 10f had the latter not been injured.

Now that would have been one helluva race if both had turned up at the top of their game.
 
If Frankel excels at 10f (as I think he will), why don't connections go for the ultimate test of the Arc? This would be the best meeting place of both Frankel and Camelot, that could fit comfortably into both horses' schedules.(This assumes of course that Frankel stays 10f in a manner to suggest he might get the Arc distance. After all, winning the Arc would be much more exciting for both us and for Frankel than winning the Champion.) All the other possibilities seem to me to compromise Camelot's chance of achieving the Triple Crown which I believe is a goal worth going for.

I agree though that the Eclipse would be a much better race to go for with Camelot than the Irish Derby. If Ballydoyle didn't have SYT for that race, we might actually get to see it.
 
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you Steve but I have been otherwise occupied with exam revision.

I have explained that Dosage is a stamina index that is useful in identifying stamina potential where form may be lacking or inconclusive. It is not a magic solution to all things. It confines itself to stamina aptitude. It does not attempt to determine such things as ability in an individual.

It is so useful for identifying stamina potential that you are happy to completely disregard its findings? I would have thought that, if dosage was a useful tool, you would use it to refine the field, in the process hopefully eliminating a few fancied contenders, before venturing in to alternative analysis to find the winner.

One positive is that you have admitted that it is not a useful tool for selecting winners. However, I still don't understand why you don't utilise it as a tool for identifying the horses with the correct stamina profile either. I was of the understanding that that was its purpose.

You also say that it is useful "where form may be lacking or inconclusive". Does that mean you don't pay any attention to it unless you consider the form to be "lacking or inconclusive"? If this is the case then this might help me understand why you are using dosage in such a selective manner. You are using it to fill in the gaps in the form, rather than as a useful tool of analysis in itself.

You seem to be fixated on the idea that I should stick exclusively to Dosage method in these articles. Although I do explain Dosage method within the context of word count restrictions this is not what I’m primarily attempting. In writing an article I may want to incorporate Dosage as an aid to arriving at a race prediction, but I also look at as much other evidence as is available in arriving at a conclusion. In other words I am asked to exercise my judgement in arriving at a race prediction.

I am showing both what the Dosage selects in terms of stamina suitability and looking at other variables that may have an impact in determining the result. Why this is so apparently difficult to take in a little mysterious.

Your article is being sold as the view of the 'dosage expert'. I would, therefore, expect the article to, at the very least, make room for the dosage findings in its race prediction. You completely disregard them. I find it astonishing that the author of such an article says that "I may want to incorporate dosage as an aid to arriving at a race prediction". I thought dosage was at the very heart of the article, indeed its purpose, not something that "may" be included if the author feels so fit.

If this is a true reflection on how you feel do you not think that the article should be rebranded to better reflect the content? It is very misleading if an article by the 'dosage expert' only "may want to incorporate dosage" when the suggestion is that it is an article about focussed on dosage as a means to finding the winner, or at the very least identifying horses with the correct stamina profile.

I have no problem with you using other methods to arrive at your conclusion. In fact, quite the opposite because I don't think dosage is at all useful in trying to find the winner so we are in agreement here. What I fail to understand is why you are disregarding the dosage findings in an article sold as being focussed on dosage. I also fail to understand the point of doing the dosage analysis in the first place if you fail to use the results to arrive at your selection.
 
SYT will need to quarantine before the Eclipse for his Oz stud duties.

I thought he had to go into quarantine straight afterwards but not before.

Aidan O'Brien said after the Tattersalls Gold Cup that "the Eclipse is likely to be his last race in Europe before he enters quarantine and goes back to Australia."
 
Last edited:
I thought he had to go into quarantine straight afterwards but not before.

Aidan O'Brien said after the Tattersalls Gold Cup that "the Eclipse is likely to be his last race in Europe before he enters quarantine andgoes back to Australia."

Quarantine dates change back and forth as flights etc. are organised - maybe it's been pulled back earlier.
 
They will run Camelot in the Irish Derby, they are very loyal to Irish racing. Aidan and Joseph are currently at the Irish Derby launch at the Curragh.

Irish Derby launch: Aidan "Camelot could run. We'll see how he is and what everyone thinks. We'd love to run."
From SL website
 
I bet they do. The race is a bonanza for them every year, they are the ones who need its prestige to be maintained more than anyone else.
 
The prize fund is also much bigger and Frankel won't be there for the Eclipse anyway. International will be Frankel's first attempt at 10f I reckon and he'll finish in the Champion all being well.
 
The prize fund is also much bigger and Frankel won't be there for the Eclipse anyway. International will be Frankel's first attempt at 10f I reckon and he'll finish in the Champion all being well.

Agree completely.
Fanciful to imagine him running his first 10f race over the stiffest test he's likely to face. Despite all the outlandish talk of Derbys and Arcs, the fact remains that connections have been signally reluctant to try the horse over further than 1m until halfway through his 4yo season.

Re Camelot. Though I would love to see him in the St Leger, it's entirely reasonable to suppose that race bottomed Nijinsky, & had he not run it, he may well have won the Arc and the Champion, retired undefeated, and thus held in the same regard as Seabird.
 
Back
Top