Epsom Derby 2012

I disagree. I think the Irish Derby is now a poor race, and the Eclipse is very strong.
 
Think about it. Imagine you're at York and Frankel and Camelot, both still unbeaten, are just going in the stalls. Just close your eyes and think of how amazing that would be.
 
Sea The Stars run the Eclipse because of the ground but they would have prefered the Irish Derby

Irish Derby has been won since Montjeu by Galileo, Sinndar, High Chaparral,Alamshar (beat Dalkhani),Hurricane Run, Dylan Thomas, Soldier Of Fortune and Fame And Glory.

5 of them Arc winners.
 
Euronymous said:
The Leger is shite because the best three year olds don't go for it...
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There's a flaw in that argument.

The best 3yos are sometimes milers who don't always go for the Derby because the trip is beyond them. The best Derby winners don't often go for the Leger because the trip is beyond them. And sometimes the best 3yos don't go for the Guineas becasue it isn't far enough for them.

The best 3yo stayers turn up in the St Leger and it is usually a good race, the winner regularly hitting 120+, which can't always be said even of the Derby.
 
so do i

at the end of the day it comes down to the racing you enjoy and the horses you identify with. i like stayers..simple as that...so i like the leger. Im not alone

I might be wrong but i get the feeling that Ballydoyle enjoy the distance races too. They hardly farm the sprints do they?

I dont simply warm to a horse because of its official rating or stallion fee.
 
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Finally we are cutting the wheat from the chaf on this thread.

Frankel V Camelot is all that matters, and effectively it is the connections of Ladbrokes that are using their muscle to run the latter in their race.

It's not often I feel for Corals, but...
 
It doesnt come to stallion fees or even tradition.

It comes down to whether you want to see a non race at Doncaster or an actual horse race, and possibly the most anticipated of our lifetime.

This one may need some thinking about...
 
Frankel V Camelot is all that matters, and effectively it is the connections of Ladbrokes that are using their muscle to run the latter in their race.
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thats assuming too much. Magnier dictated to by ladbrokes? hes the one who floated the idea
 
Its interesting how the Leger is deemed a **** race..until a really good horse goes for it and loses..Shergar...Alleged etc

yes it seems easy to win..but maybe some people here are underestimating the difficulty in winning it when you have won at 8f and 12f previously

its easy when you are laden with loads of stamina..not so easy stepping up from being the best miler of your year

personally the race bores me each year..but to see a horse win the triple crown again would be something special..it would elevate the race

Frankel v Camelot is a nice race..but some here are virtually saying this is an even match..it could end up being a one sided drubbing imo

yes i'd like to see that race..but i would also like to see a triple crown winner

these head to heads are great in anticipation..but soon forgot..Frankel v CC was one wasn't it?..yes great race..but i doubt anyone will talk about it in 5 or 10 years time

so there..an argument on both sides
 
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must admit i have always liked the St leger but its not the race for camelot

much rather see camelot facing frankel or cirrus in either the eclipse or champion

not sure his presence would enhance the leger anyway if hes on song could end up with the smallest field the leger has seen for decades
 
prince regent said:
must admit i have always liked the St leger but its not the race for camelot

much rather see camelot facing frankel or cirrus in either the eclipse or champion

not sure his presence would enhance the leger anyway if hes on song could end up with the smallest field the leger has seen for decades
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shergar didn't face many rivals..still got beat
 
I'd also like to see both a Triple Crown bid and a clash between Camelot and Frankel. As it stands Frankel's untried over further than a mile so depending on if/when he steps up in trip, may well determine if/when he might meet Camelot. I happen to think he will stay further but there is the possibility he won't in which case a clash won't happen. Also there was a big time gap between Nashwan doing the Guineas/Derby double and Sea The Stars doing the same. When STS retired, Nashwan was long gone from the breeding shed so STS offered a unique profile for breeders. Now Camelot's done the double, a successful Triple Crown bid would make him the unique one and from a marketing prospective for Coolmore that could be quite appealing.
 
Ahonoora, Pivotal others of note. A long ways from Epsom we have strayed so perhaps move on to greener pastures. Royal Ascot awaits as does a long,hopefully hot summer with enough moisture for decent going and not too much overwatering.
 
EC1 said:
Its interesting how the Leger is deemed a **** race..until a really good horse goes for it and loses..Shergar...Alleged etc

yes it seems easy to win..but maybe some people here are underestimating the difficulty in winning it when you have won at 8f and 12f previously

its easy when you are laden with loads of stamina..not so easy stepping up from being the best miler of your year

personally the race bores me each year..but to see a horse win the triple crown again would be something special..it would elevate the race

Frankel v Camelot is a nice race..but some here are virtually saying this is an even match..it could end up being a one sided drubbing imo

yes i'd like to see that race..but i would also like to see a triple crown winner

these head to heads are great in anticipation..but soon forgot..Frankel v CC was one wasn't it?..yes great race..but i doubt anyone will talk about it in 5 or 10 years time

so there..an argument on both sides
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Not sure I would put Frankel vs CC in the same bracket as Frankel vs Camelot in terms of history simply because they would assumedly be unbeaten and the one is a Derby winner. Do agree completely with the one sided drubbing. Where I come from they just call it a good old fashioned ass whippin' cause that is what Camelot would be in for. There's no glory in that. Go for the Leger and you cement your name in history even if Frankel is the better racehorse
 
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What trip are you talking about when you say Frankel is the better horse? Do you think he'd beat Camelot at weight for age over the Leger trip, for example?

If a race was to take place between the pair what would be the trip fairest to both?
 
Grey said:
What trip are you talking about when you say Frankel is the better horse? Do you think he'd beat Camelot at weight for age over the Leger trip, for example?

If a race was to take place between the pair what would be the trip fairest to both?
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it has to be 10f

Camelot is still favoured by that as he has stamna for more and Frankel might be on the stretch

Frankel is way better on ratings..Camelot is an above average Derby winner looking at the sectionals..he's not as good a Derby winner as Workforce for instance
 
10F would be perfect, and would be like the Galileo V Fantastic Light clash in the Irsh champion all those years ago plus a bit more.

I for one don't think there'd be that much in it, although Frankel would rightly go in as a slight favourite. They are both tremendous specimens. If Abdulla were happy to try out 10F, a possible chink in the armour of Frankel in theory, then that would be perfect for Camelot to try and expose, and imo the most sporting thing on behalf of the owners of Camelot to do to take him on.

Can I ask fellow forum members, I've seen a lot of positive vibes in the press for a St Leger tilt, but is anyone out there banging the drum for a Camelot-Frankel race?
 
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Marble said:
10F would be perfect, and would be like the Galileo V Fantastic Light clash in the Irsh champion all those years ago plus a bit more.

I for one don't think there's be that much in it, although Frankel would rightly go in as a slight favourite. They are both tremendous specimens.
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do you think WF at best would beat Frankel?..because at this point in time Camelot isn't as good as him..Frankel is at least 10lb better than Camelot at the moment on ratings
 
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