Epsom Derby 2012

Would be interesting if someone done research into the years of an attempted Triple Crown to find out how average or great the current crop of three year olds were.
 
Marble said:
Racing him against Frankel at 10F would prove him ten times over than winning a St Leger at 3's on.

You could race him in the Ascot Gold Cup but if there is no spectacle apart from a one horse race how is that really achieving anything.

As racing fans we should be chomping on the bit to see the two best horses race against each other, and leave the ducking and diving, bottling and cowardice to owners of the horses in this industry.
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Spot on. I don't know why anyone would rather see him win the triple crown than take on Frankel.

I don't really see why he can't do both to be honest. Take on Frankel in the International and then go on to the St.Leger.
 
Arazi said:
Spot on. I don't know why anyone would rather see him win the triple crown than take on Frankel.

I don't really see why he can't do both to be honest. Take on Frankel in the International and then go on to the St.Leger.
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i would think training a horse for 10f then 14f just after ..wouldn't work..different training regime i would think..maybe those connected with stables on here would comment on that
 
Oh So Sharp did it in 1985. After the Oaks, she was 2nd in the King George (to Petoski), 2nd in the Benson & Hedges (to Commanche Run), then won the Leger.
 
Cruella said:
It's not about the St Leger in isolation. It's what the three races together mean in the context of racing. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. That's why I believe he will go for the Leger, because in this instance it won't be the death knell for his commercial stallion prospects that a Leger win alone would be, and it will give him the opportunity of immortality as opposed to being remembered as just a(nother) very good racehorse.
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Spot on, Cruella.
 
Good post Cruella

Its strikes me that they are certainly going down that route and all credit to them.

Theres too much obsessing with immediate stallion fees. Not every stallion was a brilliant racehorse with perfect profile upon retirement and its what they are producing 5 years hence that really counts

and its only bloody money. not as if these people need it to pay the electricity is it? As magnier has indicated, theres a bit more to life and sport than spreadsheets
 
Oh So Sharp only went for the KG and B&H because Slip Anchor was injured.

The more realistic possibility would be the Leger then meet Frankel in the Champion, especially if Ascot came up soft in October. And what a billing that clash would get: the first Triple Crown winner for 42 years against Frankel the Wonder Horse. Bring it on!
 
I don't give a shite about stallion fees or spreadsheets either. I'd just rather see Camelot take on Frankel, rather than take on a load of slow old boats in a shite race. Classic? It's rarely the highlight of the afternoon it's run.
 
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I'd just rather see Camelot take on Frankel, rather than take on a load of slow old boats in a shite race
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Its not a case of one or other though is it? As cruella points out

I find the slagging of the leger very boring. Might as well go whole hog and slag off any horse better suited to 14f plus. Fame and glory etc etc. And all jumpers maybe? ok winners arent always highly rated or whatever but give me that race over any handicap. And its usually a good field run on a fair course

Its rather like the stupid argument that you hear from some that Andy Murray is **** because he doesnt win grand slams. No he isnt....

I dislike sprints but to call the top sprint races **** ... doesnt really hold up just because i dont watch them
 
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The Leger is shite because the best three year olds don't go for it and the ones that would be ideally suited to the race generally don't come to themselves until they're older horses.
 
As for coming to hand, well the derby is on far more demanding course and all of 2f less, not to mention that it is obviously earlier in the 3 year olds career

Same argument applies?
 
If you have a really good horse, you go to the Arc or the Champion Stakes,
the Leger is a waste of time and will not increase his value as a stallion or racehorse
 
EC1 said:
but she didn't win the B&H...which could be construed as a warm up race as she wasn't a 10f horse
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The irony of that comment is that a St Leger winner beat her!

Anyone who can get their hands on Pacemaker July 1999, there is an article by Julien Muscat on reviving the Triple Crown. He stated the importance of 1970s American Triple Crown victors in reviving race crowds in New York,saying that they increased Belmont crowds by 25000 to 30000 on Belmont day. These were mostly newcomers who got a taste for racing.
Given the local importance of St Leger day, with Ladbrokes marketing and McCririck taking all the credit where might it all end?
Hopefully at Ascot on Champions day with the match of matches, and Cirrus Des Aigles giving all 2 fingers!
 
clivex said:
As for coming to hand, well the derby is on far more demanding course and all of 2f less, not to mention that it is obviously earlier in the 3 year olds career

Same argument applies?
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I think so yes. I also think if you had an ideal world the Classic season for the thoroughbred would be their 4yo year.
 
sunybay said:
Frankel makes people go to a racecourse to see him in a gallop and is not a triple crown winner.
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Too true. One of J Muscats suggestions was The Eclipse Stks be the third leg of any modern Triple Crown. Ten furlongs against older horses being the ultimate contemporary racehorse test. Also the timing is such that it is long enough between races for the horse yet not too long for the public to forget. If Corals still sponsor the race, it may be the way to increase their contribution to racing! Also The Eclipse seems to have fallen between two stools with the raised profile of The Prince Of Wales for older horses while the top3yo horses seem to bypass it of late.
 
Guys, you're wrong. Racing needs Camelot to show he can do what Lucarno, Scorpion, Mastery, Arctic Cosmos and Masked Marvel have done. Must be top horses if they have won this great race... :rolleyes:
 
edgt said:
Too true. One of J Muscats suggestions was The Eclipse Stks be the third leg of any modern Triple Crown. Ten furlongs against older horses being the ultimate contemporary racehorse test. Also the timing is such that it is long enough between races for the horse yet not too long for the public to forget. If Corals still sponsor the race, it may be the way to increase their contribution to racing! Also The Eclipse seems to have fallen between two stools with the raised profile of The Prince Of Wales for older horses while the top3yo horses seem to bypass it of late.
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No they dont. Sea the stars, Authorised, Motivator were all the top horses of their generation and ran in the race.
 
the Eclipse is a good race
Sea The Stars put his best performance in that race but the the way things are going is not a top target.
Prince Of Wales is the best race of the Royal aScot meeting and the Eclipse also suffers because the best 3yo usually go to the GP Paris and the Irish Derby.
 
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