Fallon Case Collapses

"...is and was a great jockey".

Is it possible that if he gets banned for this drugs offence, that this might be the final straw for the Coolmore boys?
 
The whole point here DO..is that you don't like KF so want to see him in sh.ite...you aren't alone though..Clive is the same

We are all different I suppose..I just can't revel in someone elses misery..seems a waste of life to me.

I notice Clive has kept away from this thread though norty

he's probably not got over the pleasure he has missed out on with the case ending...he wasn't half going to be happy
 
Originally posted by DrizzleCity@Dec 8 2007, 03:23 PM
"...is and was a great jockey".

Is it possible that if he gets banned for this drugs offence, that this might be the final straw for the Coolmore boys?
With precedent suggesting an 18-month ban, I think Johnny Murtagh will be getting a call quite soon if/once the B sample is confirmed.
 
The evidence in the court case was a lot more damning than the evidence that saw Culhane, Winston, Ferris and co. warned off. Only difference is, the latter weren't accused of deliberately stopping horses and it was evidence of that particular charge that the judge said was lacking. Lack of evidence does not imply innocence though. Anyone who believes that none of those 3 jockeys have ever pulled a horse is (to quote Miles Rodgers on Keiran Fallon) not the full deck.

WTF though. There were camp inmates crying in the salt mines of Siberia when Stalin died. I daresay we can live with a few starstruck, lovesick teenagers bubbling over because their hero has been cleared.
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Dec 8 2007, 04:50 PM
Lack of evidence does not imply innocence though.

It absolutely does. The idea that anyone can be tarnished forever by baseless accusations alone sickens me.
If someone walks up to me, whacks me over the head with a hammer and is then cleared of assualt in court due to lack of evidence, I'll have to remember that the next time he approaches me there's nothing to worry about.
 
And if you're convicted of something you haven't done despite there being no compelling evidence against you, tell yourself it's ok because really, you probably did do it. Sure why would you have been charged otherwise? WTF indeed.
 
Originally posted by EC1@Dec 8 2007, 03:23 PM
The whole point here DO..is that you don't like KF so want to see him in sh.ite...
Why don't I like him?

I like Seb Sanders, Ryan Moore, John Murtagh, et al.

I don't like him because in my opinion he is dodgier than a nine-bob note. It galls me all the more that even when he was champion jockey he still managed to lose - deliberately in my opinion - races he should have been winning.

I can understand why a struggling journeyman jockey might succumb to temptation in order to supplement his income. I condemn it just as much as I would a similar action by a successful jockey but I'm more inclined to understand why the former would do it.

In my opinion, racing would be better off without Fallon.
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Dec 8 2007, 05:34 PM
And if you're convicted of something you haven't done despite there being no compelling evidence against you, tell yourself it's ok because really, you probably did do it. Sure why would you have been charged otherwise? WTF indeed.
If I was convicted of something I hadn't done I would know I hadn't done it. If someone else was exonerated of something I knew they had done I'd still know they had done it. WTF is hard to understand about that?
 
You must be the only Irishman in the world with faith in the British justice system. I suppose the Guilford 4 and Birmingham 6 were guilty until after their successful appeals.
 
If I was convicted of something I hadn't done I would know I hadn't done it.

I'm sure that thought will keep you warm whilst you're doing time for it.

You must be the only Irishman in the world with faith in the British justice system.

On the contrary, I was aghast that the system allowed it to get as far as it did. It's scary that it required a trial judge to throw it out.
 
OK Gareth. Fallon's innocent. He's never choked a horse in his life and that's why the Ramsdens got rid of him and Miles Rodgers was obviously looking for him in connection with a knitting pattern. In fact, Kieran's great. Kieran can do anything. Pass me an ankle sock.
 
And on the night of their arrest, five of the Birmingham Six were on their way back to Ireland for the funeral of an IRA bomber because they had no links to Irish republican terrorism.

See how this works yet?
 
Originally posted by Warbler@Dec 8 2007, 11:18 AM



Betfair made a gaff in this respect, which was compounded by the CPSand CoL police who seemingly failed to understand what they were dealing with. This resulted inevitably in unsustainable evidence being presented. At one level the 'flagging' system worked, it's just that the prosecution didn't seem to understand what they had. It's possible of course that they did understand it? but that the enquiry had become clouded by Scotney's obssession by then? that can only remain a point of conjecture though - I don't know - but I do know then when you lose a sense of objective assessment, your judgement goes and mistakes follow.

I thought some of CH4 team (the usual industry sychophants - or should that be sychophant) were equally remiss in aspects of their dismissal of the witnesses. ........... I think there's probably aspects of the traditional 'wall of silence' or 'non-compliance' that is hardly uncommon in a prosecution of various different natures. Essentially, a complicated web of mutual self-interests, not to mention old favours, friendships and understandings permeates the industry, and if one cherishes one's place (and livelihood in a lot of cases) to being an insider, there was always a fair chance that the prosecution was going to have to rely on outsiders to make their case,
Both these points made by Warbler in his very intelligent appraisal of what has gone wrong here resonate with me.

It was a huge mistake imo to try Fallon along with the other defendants. Even if Fallon had been passing 'information', ie tips, it seemed to me that there was no question of gain for him - more that he may have been feeling sorry for old childhood chums less fortunate than himself, and trying to give them tips so they could make a few bob. What they might have been intending to do with them was nothing to do with him.

The question of whether or not he lost races in the past which he should have won deliberately, and if so for what reason, is another matter altogether, and one on which I've no informed opinion of my own. The fact of the matter here is that there was NO EVIDENCE WHATEVER that he was part of any conspiracy to defraud, as accused [other possibly than a text warning that "I'm being watched"].

If Fallon had been tried separately there would have been no media circus and it's far more likely that IF THERE WERE any conspiracy on the part of the others, it would have been properly investigated, evaluated, and tried - which it wasn't. I'm afraid so far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on the other defendants.

As for the law of omerta [silence] in the racing ranks, I'm afraid this is always going to make any enquiry all but impossible. I've personal knowledge of this in the case of a friend who was approached by a waitress at a big Newmarket racing dinner, where a local trainer [of noted unpopularity it must be said] was heard to say something 'newsworthy' which shocked her. She reported this to my friend, a journalist and father of a school friend of hers, who investigated it thoroughly, getting corroboration from several trainers and others present.

The story was duly published in The Sunday Times iirc] after the usual checking, and the trainer promptly sued them and my friend personally for slander. He won. No-one in racing who had corroborated the story willingly - many were shocked by what happened - was prepared to testify in court, and my friend had only the word of the waitress as witness, so the judge found against the ST and my friend. It was hardly a big deal one way or the other, but it had serious consequences financially for my friend who had only reported the truth. That's how racing closes ranks, and it happens at all levels.

Personally although informed friends in racing think that KF has his finger permanently over the self-destruct button, I've always been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I cannot believe however that all of the other defendants in this case were totally innocent of ANY wrongdoing or conspiracy, even if the particular charges in the case could not be made to stick. There is too much unexplained evidence there.
 
Any chance that you could lay off the Chris Cook bashing Dante? For someone who professes to not have a clue who he is, calling him a "clown" who writes "drivel" is a tad much, don't you think? He's a good journalist and one of the very rare types in that particular breed of being a down to earth, very genuine person. Not bad considering what he's had to put up with, really.
 
Surprised more hasn't been made of Fallon's apparent drug failure..

Suppose everyone's prudently waiting for the B-sample to return (anyone have any idea when that will be?), but if it's cocaine looks like he's facing 18 month ban, just as Dean Gallagher did..

Definitely puts Aidan's interview on RTE yesterday in to perspective alright Gareth..
 
if he gets banned for that it will make many people happy I would imagine Trackside.

it looks to me that any justice..whether fair or not..is deemed ok..as long as the person on the end of it is unpopular

funny attitudes about really...hard to defend..as displayed on this thread...but everyone is different..with differing ideas of justice.

maybe we are all wrong
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Dec 8 2007, 06:28 PM
And on the night of their arrest, five of the Birmingham Six were on their way back to Ireland for the funeral of an IRA bomber because they had no links to Irish republican terrorism.

See how this works yet?
Very few Irishmen (even of the IRA backslapping type) were active members of the IRA and, even within the active group, you'd be hard pushed to find members who'd be willing to blow up people in pubs.

Very few racing insiders are not corrupt and there are very few jockeys who have not deliberately stopped a horse.

See the disimilarities?

Not that any of this has any relevance whatsoever. With my own eyes I saw many horses that were ridden by the 3 accused that drifted to ridiculous prices (totally out of keeping with their form) and were subsequently given very dodgy rides. I can't say any of the winners ever came to my attention beforehand. As I've said before, if I was THEM I'd be laying triers on the laying account while backing them on another (costs nothing) so the laying account would have the odd winner. Should the fact that the prosecution were unable to find a UK race reader (for the usual sycophantic reasons) cause me to suddenly suffer from selective memory loss? Equally, should the "Fallon has been PROVEN innocent" claims from sychophantic insiders / backslappers cause me to call it different to the way I see it (or should I say, the way it is).
 
Not only is the comparison irrelevant Honest Tom, it's also vastly oversimplistic.. no point getting in to that here though..

In fairness, it was always highly unlikely that those, such as yourself, who had already formed an opinion of Fallon as "dodgy" or "bent" would change it as a result of this trial.. so be it..

Indeed, the end of this farcical affair doesn't mean Fallon has never done a thing wrong.. merely that the allegation that he deliberately rode to lose in the specified races, thus participating in a "conspiracy to defraud" punters, is completely and utterly baseless..
 
Tom, the relevence is clear: Insinuation and vague circumstantial evidence proves nothing.
 
Tom

you had already hung Fallon out to dry, no one will change your mind

it's a very negative world you inhabit though

just because folk don't agree and think everything is "shady"..doesn't make them apologists or arse lickers or naive..it might just make them realists

the courts aren't there to carry out personal vendettas that such as you seem to embrace...thank f@ck
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Dec 8 2007, 07:55 PM
Tom, the relevence is clear: Insinuation and vague circumstantial evidence proves nothing.
All it suggests to me is that you should form your own opinion based on the evidence rather than accept the majority verdict of 12 people who were too stupid to get out of jury duty. The fact that no UK race readers were willing to buck the sycophantic code led to the collapse of the trial PROVES NOTHING.
 
Tom

Do you only respond to "regulars" on here?

seems like most do

more cliquey than TRF..and that takes some doing

just asking..coz it will save me time responding in future to some of this hatred filled drivel you like spouting :P
 
I'd have to agree with HT to an extent that a lack of evidence does not automatically assume innocence.

However, due to the farcical nature of this trial and those leading the prosecution, the case deserved to collapse as those same people destroyed their own case through their own incompetence.

Whether or not that renders all of the accused wholly innocent of any related crime to the charges thrown out is another story altogether.
 
oh sh.it....I've no chance of getting an answer now that a "regular" has posted immediately after me

nevermind...I'm pi.ss bored with this anyway

carry on with the cliquey repartee
 
Back
Top