Fallon Case Collapses

I'd have to agree with HT to an extent that a lack of evidence does not automatically assume innocence.
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In the "court of public opinion", perhaps. Thankfully, you can't be convicted there.
 
EC - how cliquey exactly is it to offer up an opinion which appears to fly in the face of the majority of the opinions already expressed here [by regulars]?

It's got me knackered!!!

It's got nothing to do with the court of public opinion, Gareth. You cannot surely assume that every verdict passed by every court is 100% accurate? That every single person convicted is always guilty of the crime they were found guilty of, the same as every person who gets off a crime is automatically innocent of said crime? That also presumes that the prosecutors/police are infallible and will extract every single piece of evidence and that if there is no evidence, there is no crime, ergo if no evidence is found to convict someone there is no earthly way possible they can be fingered for such crime.
 
I weren't having a go at you personally SL..now I weren't norty

it just feels a bit generally cliquey recently..and it's a bit annoying

I like all you folk..and I like posting...but sometimes feel invisible

even it were..thats bollox EC ...every now and then it might be nice :laughing:

i'm just making a genearl view from my perspective as a relative newcomer to this board

so...carry on
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Dec 8 2007, 08:37 PM
I'd have to agree with HT to an extent that a lack of evidence does not automatically assume innocence.
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Thank you SL. Us 'regulars' have to stick together. ;-)

EC1, I haven't been 'regular' for a while now.
eek.gif
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Dec 8 2007, 07:37 PM
However, due to the farcical nature of this trial and those leading the prosecution, the case deserved to collapse as those same people destroyed their own case through their own incompetence.
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You're back on my Christmas card list, SL :)
 
Originally posted by EC1@Dec 8 2007, 08:07 PM
you've got 3438 posts though Tom :nuts:

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Not true!!!

Read what he writes about and you'll understand he's got 1 post 3438 times :P
 
Originally posted by Warbler+Dec 8 2007, 09:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Warbler @ Dec 8 2007, 09:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-EC1@Dec 8 2007, 08:07 PM
you've got 3438 posts though Tom :nuts:

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Not true!!!

Read what he writes about and you'll understand he's got 1 post 3438 times :P [/b][/quote]
eek.gif


You're getting me mixed up with one of the other Honest Toms Warbler.
 
I love all these threads, ive been flat out busy all year and aint really had much time to post. But these threads are the ones to read!!!

Now yes im an insider in the sport and will therefore stick with the lads. But i can see all people's points of view here. Now for myself i cant remember anything like all this mess ever happening before Betfair came along, which is what does encourage the cheats.........

Now being friends with a few of the lads who have been done (Brian Reilly, David Nolan and Dean Williams) and involved in this trial (Darren Williams) i will stick up for them because that is what us in racing do. But like i said before there is no jockey in racing that has tried to win every race, not neccesarily stopped the horse but not ridden it to the best of its ability... that is usually orders from a trainer.

And as for Kieran Fallon the man is a genius on a horse and very rarely do you see him ride a bad race. The sport would be a loss without him. He is not an angel and as with this new drug test has his problems, but with all this being over his head for the last year/2 years it aint been easy. Thats no excuse if he has failed a drug test but i do sympathise.

Once again if a jockey is walking around the parade ring and a punter leans over the rails and says "Any chance mate" and he replies "No its no good" does that mean he is stopping it and giving out inside info? Or if he says "Yes i think i will go close" again is that giving out inside info?

While working for David Loder too i remember having a few horses who won first time out in bad/average maidens because they were fit and ready to run but then got rated 80 odd but were probably only 70 rated horses really. So on their next few runs i remember before the lads rule on betfair some of the staff laying them as they were favourites for handicaps. Now it wouldnt have mattered how the jockey had have ridden them they were just not good enough to win!! Sometimes that is the case and it does not always mean there is any wrong doing involved...


Really no jockey is perfect and unless there is any hardened evidence they have to be deamed innocent untill there is.........
 
I went online to the Telegraph site to see what their writers, Armytage ewt al, had to say about the case.
Found this interesting piece by Jim McGrath, which is I think the first time he's spoken out

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/12/08/shhots108.xml

He's also spoken to Aiden O'Brien as they are both in Hong Kong
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/12/08/shfall208.xml

The bit in blue is a link to Marcus's piece on the same subject, which doesn;t say much new except to strongly imply that Fallon will sue the BHA if at all possible
 
I suspect he won't sue, because someone will advise him, he will lose. Unless he can prove on the balance of probabilities, (I assume it's civil ? James?) they were

A) outside of procedure
B) a malicious prosecution was brought

It has all the hallmarks of 'out of court settlement' written all over it, although one has to normally posture thus, to get oneself into a negotiating position.

As regards my confussion with another Honest Tom. If i'm looking for self obssessed pyschos (with whom I might have confused you?) you've got some making to do on Raskolnikov (as I recall)
 
Originally posted by Warbler@Dec 9 2007, 04:01 AM
As regards my confussion with another Honest Tom. If i'm looking for self obssessed pyschos (with whom I might have confused you?) you've got some making to do on Raskolnikov (as I recall)
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Haven't a clue what you're talking about Warbler.
 
Originally posted by fudge@Dec 8 2007, 11:05 PM
I love all these threads, ive been flat out busy all year and aint really had much time to post. But these threads are the ones to read!!!

Now yes im an insider in the sport and will therefore stick with the lads. But i can see all people's points of view here. Now for myself i cant remember anything like all this mess ever happening before Betfair came along, which is what does encourage the cheats.........

Now being friends with a few of the lads who have been done (Brian Reilly, David Nolan and Dean Williams) and involved in this trial (Darren Williams) i will stick up for them because that is what us in racing do. But like i said before there is no jockey in racing that has tried to win every race, not neccesarily stopped the horse but not ridden it to the best of its ability... that is usually orders from a trainer.

And as for Kieran Fallon the man is a genius on a horse and very rarely do you see him ride a bad race. The sport would be a loss without him. He is not an angel and as with this new drug test has his problems, but with all this being over his head for the last year/2 years it aint been easy. Thats no excuse if he has failed a drug test but i do sympathise.

Once again if a jockey is walking around the parade ring and a punter leans over the rails and says "Any chance mate" and he replies "No its no good" does that mean he is stopping it and giving out inside info? Or if he says "Yes i think i will go close" again is that giving out inside info?

While working for David Loder too i remember having a few horses who won first time out in bad/average maidens because they were fit and ready to run but then got rated 80 odd but were probably only 70 rated horses really. So on their next few runs i remember before the lads rule on betfair some of the staff laying them as they were favourites for handicaps. Now it wouldnt have mattered how the jockey had have ridden them they were just not good enough to win!! Sometimes that is the case and it does not always mean there is any wrong doing involved...


Really no jockey is perfect and unless there is any hardened evidence they have to be deamed innocent untill there is.........
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An honest post fudge which pretty much sums up the way insiders think. I can understand the honour among theives bit and the "they'll be getting choked anyway so why shouldn't we make money out of it" attitude but saying it's all betfair's fault is going too far. Do racing insiders all think that it's the airlines & rail networks that are responsible for terrorism?
 
Arse Down has lamped into Fallon today, telling him to clear off out of racing and sort himself out rather than smearing the sport.

Down of course is probably still wincing from the fact that it was he ( and Geoff Lester) that was instrumental in costing the Sporting Life a fair wodge of money when they launched into Fallon and Ramsden after their Chester Cup victory.
 
hypocrite is a word that comes to mind

how i wish we were all perfect..we could then maybe pass judgement on all and sundry

Fallon is flawed...as was Besty...as was Higgins

take em as they are...it's the flaw that makes them what they are/were

Best and Higgins were brilliant...Fallon is bloody good
 
Originally posted by Arkwright@Dec 9 2007, 03:44 PM
His performance on the Morning Line a couple of weeks ago was disgraceful.
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In what sense Arkers?

EC1, AOB's comments on Fallon's mercurial nature quoted in the piece in the Telegraph [link I posted above] bears out what you say. There is a very fine line between madness and genius in all walks of life; and the highly ambitious always have an extreme propensity to risk-taking which can work against them as well as for their rise to the top. Risk taking goes with the territory; in jockeyship, it;s why Fallon or in the past Piggott are at the very top, and a Mr Reliable like Seb Sanders is not, quite.
 
Hmm, if "sorting himself out" means to come out in the press as having an addiction, publicly going through rehab then be on the large G&Ts by lunch a scant few months later, then there's hope for all of us!!! :laughing:
 
Down's views seemed to me to be perfectly sensible as did those expressed by David Ashforth in yesterday's Post as to the manner in which Fallon has conducted himself in recent years.
 
people like Fallon, Best, Higgins, White, O'Sullivan...aren't what people would call sensible...they live life a little bit more near the edge than those commentating on them


what a sh@t boring world we would live in if everyone was "sensible"
 
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