Fallon Case Collapses
- Thread starter Sara
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EC1
On a break
i know Gus...but a lot of this Fallon hating is based on him not being sensible isn't it?
Downs article is based on just that.
I actually think that within racing circles Fallon is pretty universally hated..particularly in the upper echelons
if he don't destroy himself...others will do so...they have already just had a good go
any ban for the substance abuse has already been served hasn't it?...the bloke has been under the kosh since 2004 over that bollox they just terminated aginst him...paedos don't serve that much time
how they can ban someone who's life has already been trashed for 3 years is beyond me...I would imagine most folk under the strain of losing their job and being branded a criminal might dabble with a few substances.
if they do ban him...are they going to recompense him for the past 3 years?
Downs article is based on just that.
I actually think that within racing circles Fallon is pretty universally hated..particularly in the upper echelons
if he don't destroy himself...others will do so...they have already just had a good go
any ban for the substance abuse has already been served hasn't it?...the bloke has been under the kosh since 2004 over that bollox they just terminated aginst him...paedos don't serve that much time
how they can ban someone who's life has already been trashed for 3 years is beyond me...I would imagine most folk under the strain of losing their job and being branded a criminal might dabble with a few substances.
if they do ban him...are they going to recompense him for the past 3 years?
rorydelargy
At the Start
Don't forget that he hasn't actually served any time, so a comparison with "paedo's" is rather disingenuous. It's also true that his riding has been curtailed, but the ban hasn't trashed his life ~ let's keep it in perspective.
EC1
On a break
Rory
this has been going on since 2004...thats 3 years of "time" nevermind loss of earnings..what about stress caused? Stress is a real big compensation fattener.
he's clearly been the victim of a malicious campaign to destroy his career through all this
he should appeal against the ban if administered..stating that the cause of drug taking was stress caused by the accusations he's lived under for 3 years...with doctors records he would have a good case.
if he does get the ban..then I'm pretty sure he will be sueing for stress and loss of earnings.
if it were your son...what would you recommend he do?
this has been going on since 2004...thats 3 years of "time" nevermind loss of earnings..what about stress caused? Stress is a real big compensation fattener.
he's clearly been the victim of a malicious campaign to destroy his career through all this
he should appeal against the ban if administered..stating that the cause of drug taking was stress caused by the accusations he's lived under for 3 years...with doctors records he would have a good case.
if he does get the ban..then I'm pretty sure he will be sueing for stress and loss of earnings.
if it were your son...what would you recommend he do?
The substance abuse allegedly occoured just two weeks after he'd just finished serving a ban for a previous misdemeanor - and in the same jurisdiction [France]. Hard to feel sorry for anyone acting in so headless a fashion, no matter what pressure he's under. He must have known he'd be subject to a test, ffs! esp if he won a high profile race [the Mornay]
I hardly think there is a vendetta against Fallon at the top of the profession when all the top trainers for whom he has ridden in the last few years have tood by him, owners ditto, and quite a few inc Stoute who trains for the Queen and put him up last summer on HMQ's horses, went to court to testifgy on his bhalf.
There does seem to be a vendetta against him in certain sections of the press. But then they always turn on anyone who won't talk to them, and Fallon hates the press. There is also a goodly faction of the serious punting public, and those journalists who profess to speak on their behalf, who have it in for Fallon. Seems odd to me when he wins so many races! - all jockeys lose races they ought to win.
Trouble is when a Champion jock and one accepted as the best of his generation loses a race he should win, everyone is bound to call foul. Frankie sometimes loses them too, but unlike in the case of Fallon - or Spencer - no-one accuses him of being on the take. And when Frankie makes a balls-up, it's always in some obvious way a misjudgment.
Interesting anyway, the differing attitudes of the press to jockey's failures; my guess is these may stem as much from personality traits as from any 'inside knowledge' of offending behaviour
I hardly think there is a vendetta against Fallon at the top of the profession when all the top trainers for whom he has ridden in the last few years have tood by him, owners ditto, and quite a few inc Stoute who trains for the Queen and put him up last summer on HMQ's horses, went to court to testifgy on his bhalf.
There does seem to be a vendetta against him in certain sections of the press. But then they always turn on anyone who won't talk to them, and Fallon hates the press. There is also a goodly faction of the serious punting public, and those journalists who profess to speak on their behalf, who have it in for Fallon. Seems odd to me when he wins so many races! - all jockeys lose races they ought to win.
Trouble is when a Champion jock and one accepted as the best of his generation loses a race he should win, everyone is bound to call foul. Frankie sometimes loses them too, but unlike in the case of Fallon - or Spencer - no-one accuses him of being on the take. And when Frankie makes a balls-up, it's always in some obvious way a misjudgment.
Interesting anyway, the differing attitudes of the press to jockey's failures; my guess is these may stem as much from personality traits as from any 'inside knowledge' of offending behaviour
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Will the HRA give him a hefty ban anyway for breaching it's regulations?
Well they could and they might but I think they'd have to take off 'time served' ie the time he's been banned already pending judgment
The substance abuse matter - IF it sticks - will make it more difficult imo for him to sue for loss of earnings as this would have resulted in him being banned for most of the period anyway, esp as it would be a 2nd offence. If proven.
The substance abuse matter - IF it sticks - will make it more difficult imo for him to sue for loss of earnings as this would have resulted in him being banned for most of the period anyway, esp as it would be a 2nd offence. If proven.
EC1
On a break
I think Fallon suffers from...having something of the night about him...to use a well worn phrase....he looks a dodgy dark character...he isn't an affable clown...or a bumbling buffon...if he was...none of this would have occured.
it's because he is so good that people expect perfection every time.
There is no doubt that he is hated by those that can hurt him..that was clearly discussed in this trial wasn't it?...the word vendetta was used
I agree he does have the support of top trainers...it's not those people I was referring to.
it's because he is so good that people expect perfection every time.
There is no doubt that he is hated by those that can hurt him..that was clearly discussed in this trial wasn't it?...the word vendetta was used
I agree he does have the support of top trainers...it's not those people I was referring to.
EC1
On a break
I think getting banned for substance abuse...brought on by stress from this...will strengthen any claim for compensation.
it would actually be a measure of stress...ie..it drove me to take drugs
it matters not a jot if he has ever took drugs before,..he could blame the drug taking entirely on this court case.....he'll get bloody thousands compensation
so..he may get banned..but the ban would ensure massive compensation.
it would actually be a measure of stress...ie..it drove me to take drugs
it matters not a jot if he has ever took drugs before,..he could blame the drug taking entirely on this court case.....he'll get bloody thousands compensation
so..he may get banned..but the ban would ensure massive compensation.
I certainly don't hate Fallon. I've actually got a soft spot for him if only because my late father loved him so much for getting him out of many a hole on the racecourse. In fact, dad's last words to me concerned Fallon. He'd £50 on Scorpion ante-post for the 2005 Leger at 9/4 and he was tipping the horse to everyone who visited him in the hospice where he eventually died that September at the age of 84. In the lead-up to the Leger, there was speculation as to whether Fallon or Dettori would take the ride and my dad's parting words to me were: "if Fallon rides, stick us another fifty on". He died three days before the Leger and, as we all know, it was in the event Dettori who rode Scorpion to victory. That wasn't the end of it, though, as eight months later Fallon landed dad's ante-post bet placed the previous August on George Washington for the Guineas at 6/1.
So you'll appreciate that I have considerable residual goodwill towards Fallon who I regard as a terrific jockey, one of the best I've seen. It does not constitute some sort of witch hunt, however, to say that he has conducted himself pretty deplorably in recent times. He has been acquitted at the Old Bailey and that's the end of that but in addition to the drugs involvement we shouldn't forget the "fake sheikh" episode. No action was taken in relation to that but I don't think it was ever suggested that the transcripts of the conversations involving Fallon and his good friend Egan weren't genuine and they made embarrassing and cringeworthy reading.
What Ashforth wrote yesterday - before the drugs news broke - was this: "Fallon, now 42, is a difficult person to understand. He can seem chippy but also vulnerable. He gives the impression that he wonders whether to trust you but he can be warm, helpful, generous with his time, and makes little of the fact that he is a six-time champion jockey, a sports superstar. Maybe that is part of the trouble: he doesn't behave sufficiently like horseracing's champion. A lot of people in racing want the best for Fallon and, over the years, he must have received plenty of sound advice. He hasn't heeded it sufficiently and the people in whose company he feels most comfortable probably include some he ought to avoid. Fallon may feel aggrieved at his prosecution but, for his own good as well as racing's, he should now dedicate himself to a professional life that is more respectful of the rules, and shows more respect for his own standing in the sport. He should make the most of his exceptional riding talent before he is too old."
I can't find anything in that with which to disagree.
So you'll appreciate that I have considerable residual goodwill towards Fallon who I regard as a terrific jockey, one of the best I've seen. It does not constitute some sort of witch hunt, however, to say that he has conducted himself pretty deplorably in recent times. He has been acquitted at the Old Bailey and that's the end of that but in addition to the drugs involvement we shouldn't forget the "fake sheikh" episode. No action was taken in relation to that but I don't think it was ever suggested that the transcripts of the conversations involving Fallon and his good friend Egan weren't genuine and they made embarrassing and cringeworthy reading.
What Ashforth wrote yesterday - before the drugs news broke - was this: "Fallon, now 42, is a difficult person to understand. He can seem chippy but also vulnerable. He gives the impression that he wonders whether to trust you but he can be warm, helpful, generous with his time, and makes little of the fact that he is a six-time champion jockey, a sports superstar. Maybe that is part of the trouble: he doesn't behave sufficiently like horseracing's champion. A lot of people in racing want the best for Fallon and, over the years, he must have received plenty of sound advice. He hasn't heeded it sufficiently and the people in whose company he feels most comfortable probably include some he ought to avoid. Fallon may feel aggrieved at his prosecution but, for his own good as well as racing's, he should now dedicate himself to a professional life that is more respectful of the rules, and shows more respect for his own standing in the sport. He should make the most of his exceptional riding talent before he is too old."
I can't find anything in that with which to disagree.
Nor can I gus, in fact I think it's a very sympathetic piece and eminently sensible.
EC1 I don't know how old you are but you seem to have little idea how the world works. An added misdemeanor which involved use of Class A drugs would hardly be likely to enhance anyone's case for compensation, nor to motivate leniency or benefit of the doubt on the part of either the racing authorities or the courts. I sometimes feel - and I can see others share my feeling - that you live in a parallel universe to the rest of us
:laughing:
EC1 I don't know how old you are but you seem to have little idea how the world works. An added misdemeanor which involved use of Class A drugs would hardly be likely to enhance anyone's case for compensation, nor to motivate leniency or benefit of the doubt on the part of either the racing authorities or the courts. I sometimes feel - and I can see others share my feeling - that you live in a parallel universe to the rest of us
:laughing:
EC1
On a break
Gus
I wasn't suggesting you were a Fallon hater..i think Down is though
thats a nice story about your Dad
I can't find much wrong with that article either.
I think the drug ban would be a big mistake..for the reasons mentioned above...he can now clearly blame that on the trial
I think it's an interesting situation..the ban could bring a lot of ###### on
but...he has to be punished for what he did as well...could be interesting
I wasn't suggesting you were a Fallon hater..i think Down is though
thats a nice story about your Dad
I can't find much wrong with that article either.
I think the drug ban would be a big mistake..for the reasons mentioned above...he can now clearly blame that on the trial
I think it's an interesting situation..the ban could bring a lot of ###### on
but...he has to be punished for what he did as well...could be interesting
EC1
On a break
it's interesting Headstrong how daft I am..but end up right on many occasions
ages ago on TRF board when they first released the info about the 18 races...with KF winning on 6 of them
I said on there that there was no way a jockey will be deemed guilty of anything based on those races...seeing as how it was a tremendous strike rate
the responses to me there were.....you don't know what you are tallking about..they will have more than that on him...you live in a fantasy world if you think thats all they have.....
those people..Clive was one...ain't said a dickiebird since.
so don't worry about belittling my view..I've been there before.
I'll just ask you this...have you ever had stress?...well if you have..you will know that doctors are VERY sympathetic about it...and will write almost anything you want down
it won't make any difference what drug Fallon took...it will blamed on the stress...wasn't in his right mind etc.
I think you may be being naive if you underestimate the power a doctor has
ages ago on TRF board when they first released the info about the 18 races...with KF winning on 6 of them
I said on there that there was no way a jockey will be deemed guilty of anything based on those races...seeing as how it was a tremendous strike rate
the responses to me there were.....you don't know what you are tallking about..they will have more than that on him...you live in a fantasy world if you think thats all they have.....
those people..Clive was one...ain't said a dickiebird since.
so don't worry about belittling my view..I've been there before.
I'll just ask you this...have you ever had stress?...well if you have..you will know that doctors are VERY sympathetic about it...and will write almost anything you want down
it won't make any difference what drug Fallon took...it will blamed on the stress...wasn't in his right mind etc.
I think you may be being naive if you underestimate the power a doctor has
K
Kathy
Guest
I remember saying on another thread that I felt that Fallon is not a crook but is probably just easily led by people that take advantage of him. It's happens. He's an easy target for the unscrupulous as he is probably a very decent and generous person. The cocaine using doesn't surprise me at all. He really needs to take stock and realise what a brilliant jockey he is and leave some of his so called "friends" in the gutter where they clearly belong. Fallon does need to take responsibility for his actions but I still feel there are bigger fish to catch and these are the ones the police should be concentrating their efforts on.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Kieren before it's too late.
Wake up and smell the coffee, Kieren before it's too late.
G
Gearoid
Guest
that is if his nostrils allow him...
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Perhaps he just does it for the craic, or crack, whichever you prefer.
EC1 << ... it won't make any difference what drug Fallon took...it will blamed on the stress...wasn't in his right mind etc. I think you may be being naive if you underestimate the power a doctor has >>
A doctor has no power to force the HRA to ignore criminal drug-taking, should it be proven. Stress is NO defence in law, and often not even offered let alone considered as mitigating circumstances, even in murder cases.
What we are talking about here is the HRA applying the Rules of Racing, which they will, regardless of the 'stress' caused. If a second offence of drug-taking esp so close to the first isn't 'bringing racing into disrepute', I don't know what is. If proven, which it has not yet been.
If proven it would imo be highly detrimental to any chance of KF getting compensation from the HRA for not being able to ride this summer gone. Kathy, I don't know if 'decent' people, however generous, mix with some of the lowlife with whom KF associates. I admire him hugely as a jockey, but as a person, hmmm....
A doctor has no power to force the HRA to ignore criminal drug-taking, should it be proven. Stress is NO defence in law, and often not even offered let alone considered as mitigating circumstances, even in murder cases.
What we are talking about here is the HRA applying the Rules of Racing, which they will, regardless of the 'stress' caused. If a second offence of drug-taking esp so close to the first isn't 'bringing racing into disrepute', I don't know what is. If proven, which it has not yet been.
If proven it would imo be highly detrimental to any chance of KF getting compensation from the HRA for not being able to ride this summer gone. Kathy, I don't know if 'decent' people, however generous, mix with some of the lowlife with whom KF associates. I admire him hugely as a jockey, but as a person, hmmm....
EC1
On a break
A doctor has no power to force the HRA to ignore criminal drug-taking, should it be proven
the power will be all about how bad it looks in the press
if Fallon gets banned he is going to be going down the malicious court case ruined my life road...someone will then be coughing large amounts of money up in compensation...lots of bad press for racing yet again...plus more money wasted.
it all looks cut and dried at the moment..if guilty..then banned..
lets see how it turns out then
the power will be all about how bad it looks in the press
if Fallon gets banned he is going to be going down the malicious court case ruined my life road...someone will then be coughing large amounts of money up in compensation...lots of bad press for racing yet again...plus more money wasted.
it all looks cut and dried at the moment..if guilty..then banned..
lets see how it turns out then
You seem to be a bit obsessed with what i have to say about this EC.
The above is ridiculous of course. Laughable even...but I think an 18 month ban (as seems likely) is a bit harsh.
Seems to be quite a bit of talk that this has been the final straw, not so much for Coolmore, but definately for AOB
Honest Tom
At the Start
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,272
Can you please explain this to me.
