First Season Sires

This week's table courtesy of the Racing Post site:



STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 12–38 32% 19 120 19 17 11 £100,322 £168,907
Dutch Art 10–25 40% 14 74 16 7 11 £60,176 £90,391
Excellent Art 6–16 38% 8 45 8 6 6 £68,730 £90,150
Teofilo 5–16 31% 6 29 4 4 3 £68,409 £79,733
Red Clubs 8–45 18% 9 123 13 14 19 £28,879 £61,792
Hard Spun 3–4 75% 5 8 0 1 2 £47,043 £48,555
Amadeus Wolf 7–35 20% 8 90 6 17 8 £28,271 £46,868
Dylan Thomas 3–11 27% 3 19 4 2 3 £25,578 £45,160
Jeremy 3–10 30% 3 25 4 1 4 £24,381 £40,491
Lawman 3–12 25% 4 24 3 1 1 £21,532 £38,774
Cockney Rebel 3–13 23% 4 33 5 6 6 £13,816 £22,587
Vital Equine 2–9 22% 3 26 3 5 4 £12,037 £20,418
Strategic Prince 3–22 14% 4 44 3 2 2 £15,894 £19,974
Moss Vale 3–16 19% 3 31 2 1 0 £16,943 £19,642
Multiplex 3–12 25% 3 37 6 3 7 £8,782 £18,044
Baltic King 2–12 17% 3 30 3 2 2 £11,241 £15,525
Sir Percy 2–8 25% 3 16 0 5 1 £7,380 £11,063
Misu Bond 2–7 29% 3 18 2 0 1 £7,945 £9,871
Three Valleys 2–21 10% 2 48 3 2 9 £4,337 £8,587
Heliostatic 1–3 33% 1 7 2 1 0 £2,976 £4,666
Notnowcato 0–5 — 0 11 2 1 1 £0 £4,332
Echo Of Light 1–9 11% 1 14 0 1 0 £3,238 £4,143
Windsor Knot 0–1 — 0 7 2 2 1 £0 £3,150
Alkaadhem 1–1 100% 1 2 0 0 0 £2,897 £2,897
Any Given Saturday 0–1 — 0 1 1 0 0 £0 £1,925
Milk It Mick 0–4 — 0 8 1 0 0 £0 £1,925
Manduro 0–3 — 0 8 1 1 0 £0 £1,021
Stormy River 0–1 — 0 1 0 1 0 £0 £308
Orientor 0–1 — 0 2 0 0 1 £0 £192
Rail Link 0–5 — 0 7 0 0 0 £0 £0
Daaher 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Scat Daddy 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Mountain High 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Street Sense 0–2 — 0 2 0 0 0 £0 £0

Couple of stallions there whose first runners I have missed (bad Colin).

By the way this is the first year that I have kept an eye on these and I had assumed that all the off-spring would be 2-y-os but I notice that toward the bottom of the above table, ALKAADHEM, who, when you check on his details had a runner in Ireland in 2010 and is listed as having his first 3-y-os running in 2011? Would this be because he was standing for a time in the Southern Hemisphere, he is by Stagecraft. Listed now as standing at the Ballycurragh Stud (Ire) which definitely sound Irish to me!
 
The table as it appears on the RP site at the mo:



STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 12–39 31% 19 126 19 17 11 £100,322 £169,198
Dutch Art 10–26 38% 14 77 17 7 12 £60,176 £95,139
Excellent Art 6–18 33% 8 48 9 8 6 £68,730 £92,515
Teofilo 6–18 33% 7 33 5 4 3 £70,932 £83,218
Red Clubs 11–45 24% 13 131 13 14 20 £37,871 £71,072
Hard Spun 4–5 80% 6 9 0 1 2 £50,277 £51,790
Dylan Thomas 3–13 23% 3 22 5 3 3 £25,578 £47,341
Amadeus Wolf 7–36 19% 8 93 6 17 9 £28,271 £47,036
Jeremy 3–10 30% 3 26 4 1 4 £24,381 £40,491
Lawman 3–13 23% 4 26 3 1 1 £21,532 £38,774
Strategic Prince 3–25 12% 4 51 5 3 2 £15,894 £30,125
Vital Equine 3–9 33% 4 27 3 5 4 £15,919 £24,300
Cockney Rebel 3–13 23% 4 37 5 7 6 £13,816 £22,827
Baltic King 3–12 25% 4 36 3 5 2 £12,858 £20,167
Moss Vale 3–16 19% 3 31 2 1 0 £16,943 £19,642
Multiplex 3–12 25% 3 37 6 3 7 £8,782 £18,044
Sir Percy 2–9 22% 3 18 0 5 2 £7,380 £11,063
Misu Bond 2–7 29% 3 21 3 0 1 £7,945 £10,333
Three Valleys 2–23 9% 2 54 4 2 9 £4,337 £9,068
Notnowcato 0–6 — 0 13 2 1 2 £0 £4,712
Heliostatic 1–3 33% 1 7 2 1 0 £2,976 £4,666
Echo Of Light 1–9 11% 1 15 0 1 0 £3,238 £4,143
Windsor Knot 0–1 — 0 7 2 2 1 £0 £3,150
Alkaadhem 1–1 100% 1 2 0 0 0 £2,897 £2,897
Any Given Saturday 0–1 — 0 1 1 0 0 £0 £1,925
Milk It Mick 0–4 — 0 9 1 0 0 £0 £1,925
Jazil 0–3 — 0 3 1 0 0 £0 £1,261
Manduro 0–4 — 0 9 1 1 0 £0 £1,021
Stormy River 0–1 — 0 1 0 1 0 £0 £308
Orientor 0–1 — 0 2 0 0 1 £0 £192
Rail Link 0–5 — 0 8 0 0 0 £0 £0
Mountain High 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Daaher 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Scat Daddy 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Street Sense 0–2 — 0 2 0 0 0 £0 £0
 
This weeks table:


STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 12–41 29% 19 141 23 19 13 £100,322 £215,131
Teofilo 7–20 35% 8 38 6 4 4 £97,548 £117,615
Excellent Art 7–20 35% 9 54 9 11 6 £70,994 £100,393
Dutch Art 10–26 38% 14 79 17 8 12 £60,176 £95,475
Red Clubs 13–48 27% 17 147 15 15 22 £48,804 £84,713
Amadeus Wolf 9–37 24% 10 101 7 17 9 £37,328 £56,959
Hard Spun 4–6 67% 6 10 0 1 2 £50,277 £51,790
Strategic Prince 5–25 20% 6 57 5 4 3 £23,657 £50,265
Dylan Thomas 3–13 23% 3 23 5 3 3 £25,578 £47,341
Jeremy 3–10 30% 3 29 5 2 4 £24,381 £41,213
Lawman 3–13 23% 4 26 3 1 1 £21,532 £38,774
Moss Vale 5–17 29% 5 36 2 3 0 £21,795 £25,630
Vital Equine 3–9 33% 4 27 3 5 4 £15,919 £24,300
Cockney Rebel 3–14 21% 4 39 5 7 7 £13,816 £23,164
Baltic King 3–13 23% 4 39 3 5 2 £12,858 £20,167
Multiplex 3–13 23% 3 42 7 3 7 £8,782 £18,910
Three Valleys 4–24 17% 4 60 4 3 10 £9,668 £14,892
Sir Percy 2–11 18% 3 22 0 7 2 £7,380 £12,554
Misu Bond 2–8 25% 4 24 3 0 1 £9,649 £12,038
Alkaadhem 1–1 100% 2 3 0 0 0 £8,845 £8,845
Notnowcato 1–10 10% 1 18 2 1 2 £2,911 £7,623
Heliostatic 1–3 33% 1 7 2 1 0 £2,976 £4,666
Echo Of Light 1–10 10% 1 16 0 1 0 £3,238 £4,143
Stormy River 1–1 100% 1 2 0 1 0 £3,235 £3,543
Windsor Knot 0–1 — 0 7 2 2 1 £0 £3,150
Milk It Mick 0–5 — 0 11 1 0 1 £0 £2,262
Manduro 0–6 — 0 12 2 1 1 £0 £1,983
Any Given Saturday 0–1 — 0 1 1 0 0 £0 £1,925
Jazil 0–3 — 0 3 1 0 0 £0 £1,261
Teuflesberg 0–1 — 0 1 0 1 0 £0 £1,026
Street Sense 0–2 — 0 3 0 0 1 £0 £481
Authorized 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 1 £0 £332
Orientor 0–1 — 0 2 0 0 1 £0 £192
Rail Link 0–6 — 0 10 0 0 0 £0 £0
Scat Daddy 0–1 — 0 2 0 0 0 £0 £0
Istan 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Mountain High 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Daaher 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
 
being a fan of Cockney Rebel progeny anyone notice in the last week, he's had about 5 seconds and Monday nights impressive class 3 winner at Windsor, Rebellious Guest.
 
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The latest table:



STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 16–46 35% 28 191 28 23 23 £137,105 £294,905
Dutch Art 18–34 53% 25 121 23 14 15 £180,708 £288,554
Teofilo 8–24 33% 9 52 10 7 5 £114,359 £155,088
Strategic Prince 5–31 16% 7 83 8 6 4 £118,657 £150,532
Red Clubs 15–54 28% 21 200 22 22 24 £84,814 £144,743
Excellent Art 10–29 34% 13 85 13 12 8 £85,290 £134,496
Amadeus Wolf 10–44 23% 13 146 12 23 19 £49,098 £86,472
Lawman 5–20 25% 6 43 8 1 1 £38,187 £73,990
Dylan Thomas 5–20 25% 5 44 7 6 5 £36,985 £71,786
Jeremy 4–14 29% 4 43 6 6 4 £25,949 £59,832
Hard Spun 4–6 67% 6 13 0 2 3 £50,277 £58,510
Cockney Rebel 6–16 38% 8 60 11 9 7 £32,156 £48,305
Moss Vale 7–24 29% 8 55 5 3 3 £33,158 £43,370
Vital Equine 3–10 30% 5 34 5 5 4 £23,358 £38,299
Sir Percy 5–16 31% 6 43 3 9 5 £17,494 £29,847
Baltic King 5–14 36% 6 55 3 8 3 £16,721 £25,349
Multiplex 3–13 23% 3 50 7 6 9 £8,782 £23,169
Three Valleys 5–28 18% 5 82 6 7 13 £11,933 £21,536
Alkaadhem 1–1 100% 3 5 1 0 0 £15,091 £16,401
Misu Bond 2–8 25% 5 29 4 2 2 £11,914 £15,855
Heliostatic 2–3 67% 3 13 3 1 0 £9,445 £14,023
Rail Link 3–12 25% 3 22 0 1 3 £12,689 £13,765
Notnowcato 2–14 14% 2 31 2 2 2 £5,822 £11,207
Echo Of Light 2–13 15% 2 27 0 2 1 £6,473 £10,870
Scat Daddy 1–2 50% 1 3 0 0 0 £8,922 £8,922
Windsor Knot 1–4 25% 1 12 2 3 1 £3,235 £7,169
Any Given Saturday 1–2 50% 1 3 1 0 0 £4,399 £6,324
Authorized 1–7 14% 1 9 1 0 1 £3,340 £5,020
Jazil 1–3 33% 1 6 1 0 0 £3,235 £4,495
Stormy River 1–2 50% 1 4 0 1 0 £3,235 £3,543
Manduro 0–6 — 0 15 3 2 1 £0 £3,379
Milk It Mick 0–6 — 0 18 1 1 2 £0 £3,075
Teuflesberg 0–1 — 0 2 0 1 1 £0 £1,543
Orientor 0–2 — 0 3 0 0 2 £0 £519
Street Sense 0–2 — 0 3 0 0 1 £0 £481
Invasor 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 1 £0 £385
Latent Heat 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 1 £0 £245
Arcadio 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Istan 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Daaher 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Mountain High 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Mustanfar 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
 
The table as it is now:



STALLION WINNERS–RUNNERS WINS RUNS 2ND 3RD 4TH WIN PRIZE TOTAL PRIZE
Dark Angel 17–50 34% 29 211 31 28 25 £138,469 £302,381
Dutch Art 19–37 51% 27 137 24 17 17 £187,113 £298,286
Strategic Prince 7–32 22% 9 92 9 8 4 £122,538 £174,035
Red Clubs 20–56 36% 27 221 26 22 27 £99,916 £166,382
Excellent Art 12–35 34% 15 101 16 16 10 £95,068 £162,960
Teofilo 9–26 35% 10 61 11 8 6 £117,658 £161,049
Amadeus Wolf 11–45 24% 16 160 13 24 20 £66,063 £109,249
Dylan Thomas 7–22 32% 7 53 9 7 6 £46,430 £85,886
Lawman 8–20 40% 9 51 8 1 2 £46,378 £82,301
Hard Spun 4–8 50% 6 19 1 4 3 £50,277 £66,193
Jeremy 4–15 27% 4 49 6 7 6 £25,949 £64,797
Cockney Rebel 7–17 41% 9 67 11 10 7 £33,860 £50,779
Moss Vale 7–30 23% 10 70 5 4 4 £39,174 £50,499
Vital Equine 3–10 30% 5 40 6 5 5 £23,358 £40,180
Sir Percy 6–17 35% 7 49 3 11 6 £19,758 £32,897
Multiplex 5–14 36% 5 55 7 6 9 £13,634 £28,021
Baltic King 5–14 36% 6 62 5 8 4 £16,721 £26,526
Three Valleys 5–30 17% 5 91 7 9 13 £11,933 £23,116
Heliostatic 2–3 67% 3 14 4 1 0 £9,445 £18,645
Notnowcato 4–15 27% 4 39 2 2 2 £12,226 £17,611
Misu Bond 2–8 25% 5 31 5 2 3 £11,914 £16,433
Alkaadhem 1–1 100% 3 6 1 0 0 £15,091 £16,401
Rail Link 3–12 25% 3 26 0 1 3 £12,689 £13,765
Echo Of Light 2–14 14% 2 34 1 3 1 £6,473 £12,987
Authorized 2–11 18% 2 15 2 0 4 £7,804 £12,513
Jazil 1–4 25% 2 9 1 0 0 £7,763 £9,024
Scat Daddy 1–2 50% 1 3 0 0 0 £8,922 £8,922
Any Given Saturday 1–2 50% 1 4 1 1 0 £4,399 £7,767
Windsor Knot 1–4 25% 1 13 2 4 1 £3,235 £7,420
Stormy River 1–2 50% 1 5 0 1 1 £3,235 £3,831
Manduro 0–9 — 0 20 3 2 2 £0 £3,499
Milk It Mick 0–6 — 0 20 1 1 2 £0 £3,075
Teuflesberg 0–1 — 0 2 0 1 1 £0 £1,543
Street Sense 0–2 — 0 5 0 1 1 £0 £1,154
Orientor 0–3 — 0 4 0 0 2 £0 £519
Invasor 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 1 £0 £385
Latent Heat 0–1 — 0 2 0 0 1 £0 £245
Primary 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 1 £0 £236
Arcadio 0–1 — 0 2 0 0 0 £0 £0
Istan 0–1 — 0 2 0 0 0 £0 £0
Mustanfar 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Mountain High 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0
Daaher 0–1 — 0 1 0 0 0 £0 £0


Dark Angel has four runners with a RPR OF 100 or more, Teofilo three and Jeremy two; no other first season sire has more than one.

Just thought I'd have a look not sure of the significance.
 
I think It is significant Colin. If you look at Baltic King, he has a strike rate of 36% and 5 winners but only 26.5k prize money. Best Rpr 96, next 74.Well placed but moderate 2yr olds.

Teofilo would have got the best mares.
 
Too small a sample size, allied to too arbitrary a cut-off rating?

The RP has rated 52 Dark Angels so far. Average RPR is 69, median is 68, standard deviation is 18. 23 of them (44%) sit between a rating of 60 and 80.

The RP has rated 40 Dutch Arts so far. Average RPR is 76, median is 75, standard deviation is 13. 23 of them (58%) sit between a rating of 70 and 90.

The RP has rated 26 Teofilos so far. Average RPR is 75, median is 75, standard deviation is 17. 11 of them (48%) sit between a rating of 70 and 90.

Given a blind pick, which stallion's progeny would you choose from?

(I'm not vouching for those sample sizes either, btw, just showing another way you could look at them if you wanted.)
 
A lot of guess work but taking into account the opportunity that that Teofilo got i'll have a Dutch art this year and a Teofilo next year please.
 
All about value for money. Jeremy was certainly the surprise package given he was around 5k a go.
 
Melendez said:
Half of Scat Daddy's progeny look like being f****** aeroplanes.
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St Pancras is one to watch - ran green in her first start and hacked home at Saratoga last week. Scat is already represented by a group performer in Force De La Nature too (Schuylerville Stakes, G3, Saratoga) and two further stakes performers in Finale and Mystic Mama. Not bad for only 43 starters worldwide so far....11 of those winners.
 
The point I was making about Rpr's was that some of the sharper operations will ensure their sires progeny will run in weak races that give them the best chance of winning which is fine but can give you a false impression in the % winners to runners column.

I like Jeremy but two horses don't make a summer if you catch my meaning and he was entitled to get stakes horses from those mares.
The thinking is Jeremys will be better at 3 but they still have to do it.
I don't think much was expected of Strategic Prince who has already landed a Grp 1 winner and Hannon is supposed to have the best of them. (heard that before)His performance to date imo is similar to Jeremy or perhaps slightly better if you consider a lot of the mares he was getting where after thoughts and Jeremy was being pushed. Jeremys do look like they have more scope for next year .

Dutch art pedigree is light so he's probably exceeding expectations.
 
Miesque said:
St Pancras is one to watch - ran green in her first start and hacked home at Saratoga last week. Scat is already represented by a group performer in Force De La Nature too (Schuylerville Stakes, G3, Saratoga) and two further stakes performers in Finale and Mystic Mama. Not bad for only 43 starters worldwide so far....11 of those winners.
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Thank you Miesque for your very informative answer. Sadly I was not worthy of it and I apologise.

I was referring to the great Daddy Long Legs who is my choice in the Ballydoyle 2yos competition, and who I had assumed was the 1 winner out of 2 runners in the stats, although I'm not even sure if that is the case.:(
 
Sheikh, if you had €10,000 to buy a yearling this year - and all other things being equal (which they can never be but just come for the ride on this) ie similar Mare line, conformation, disposition etc... what Sire would you go for?? I open the question to all the esteemed bloodstock people. Us dirty, gritty punters need the knowledge!!
 
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Melendez said:
Thank you Miesque for your very informative answer. Sadly I was not worthy of it and I apologise.

I was referring to the great Daddy Long Legs who is my choice in the Ballydoyle 2yos competition, and who I had assumed was the 1 winner out of 2 runners in the stats, although I'm not even sure if that is the case.:(
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The stats we work off for the comp. are (I think) runners in Europe - hence being 1 from 2, he has more runners over here because he stands at Ashford. Everyone's worthy of a informative reply - how else would we learn anything new? :)
 
On The Bridle said:
Sheikh, if you had €10,000 to buy a yearling this year - and all other things being equal (which they can never be but just come for the ride on this) ie similar Mare line, conformation, disposition etc... what Sire would you go for?? I open the question to all the esteemed bloodstock people. Us dirty, gritty punters need the knowledge!!
Click to expand...

Pretty sure I don't count as esteemed....but hey.

Colt and you want him to race on? Aim for a Teofilo with suspect x-rays and be willing to have the arthroscopy done. (just to get in the right price bracket!) Or a Scat Daddy.

Colt for immediate gain? Dark Angel, but assume the 2yo year is the best he's giving you.

Filly? As you know I get a bit breeding obsessed with fillies so would be looking for a v.cheap Dancer or similar lines with the "golden cross" in the back of my mind. Possibly an Aussie Rules would cut it.

Willing to risk a freshman sire for next seasons 2yos? Duke of Marmalade, hands down.
 
Miesque said:
Pretty sure I don't count as esteemed....but hey.

Colt and you want him to race on? Aim for a Teofilo with suspect x-rays and be willing to have the arthroscopy done. (just to get in the right price bracket!) Or a Scat Daddy.

Colt for immediate gain? Dark Angel, but assume the 2yo year is the best he's giving you.

Filly? As you know I get a bit breeding obsessed with fillies so would be looking for a v.cheap Dancer or similar lines with the "golden cross" in the back of my mind. Possibly an Aussie Rules would cut it.

Willing to risk a freshman sire for next seasons 2yos? Duke of Marmalade, hands down.
Click to expand...

Would you get a Duke of Marmalade for 10K do you think???
 
Excuse my ignorance but the Golden Cross you refer to would have something to do with Galileo and not the hurdler that Johnny Murtagh managed to get beaten in a stayers hurdle many moons back......
 
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