Frankel V Canford Cliffs

I think it would be a shame if he only runs once more this year . Goldikova might stay at home run in the Foret and go to the Breeders - if he isn't going to York go and take her on at Deauville !!!
 
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it would have been a great match


my feeling is Frankel is better than STS


if they keep him in training is a good sign, they should think he has not fulfilled his potential and probably think is the best horse ever.


I would run just one more race this year if thinking in him staying in training,
 
granger said:
To a flat greenhorn.. How does he compare to Sea the Stars?
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I would say possibly better at a mile but difficult to say of further with Frankel as yet untried. I really do hope he stays in training and quite possible he will considering Juddmonte's recent policy of doing so.
 
Think I have just lost my thread!

Am I so pleased I took this afternoon off to watch the race, he is a true Superstar, what a run it was effortless and he looks like he can run further.

Loved the 3 cheers for Sir Henry! Thanks to all the connections for Frankel for bring us such wonderful sport - roll on the Juddmonte or the QE11
 
granger said:
To a flat greenhorn.. How does he compare to Sea the Stars?
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Better at a mile. Still has to prove it over 10f but potentially better. Will probably never be asked to run over 12f.

Edit: that's in absolute terms. When he wins 6 of the most prestigious Group 1s in the world in 6 months, he'll have matched the achievement part of the task :)
 
Having just watched a reply, Frankel was very impressive. CC hanging under pressure I would say rather than somethin wrong with him, whether Hughes picked up the whip or not.
In these days of complaints of low prize money, and given that both are group one races and therefore not 'everyday ' races, but the fact that two of the most prestigious flat races of the season only attracted 5 and 4 runners is hardly encouraging for the industry.
 
Nice clip. It was lovely that they brought him right by all the grandstands at a walk after finishing, to huge applause, before turning round and going to the winner's enclosure. That way everyone could get their chance to give him the plaudits he deserves. He looked gorgeous in the pre-parade (although in fairness, so did CC), while the also rans were sweating up quite a bit. It was humid weather, mind.

One small thing to say about the ground - given the high levels of humidity at Goodwood and the rain yesterday, that 'Good' is running very much to a GS surface. I spoke with a couple of trainers today who affirmed this, it's not just me conjecturing.
 
Just back from Goodwood - Frankel amazing. The Hannons really neeed to get a grip of themselves. They have embarrassed themselves and the sport with the sly nonsensical digs at Frankel, and now it has come back to bite them in the best way possible. CC wasn't just beaten today , he was humilated by a horse in a different league. For Hannon Snr to now come out with the course not being right, is even more laighable - this the same course that he won on last year... pathetic..
To quote Hannon: the Mighty Frankel ,"learnt how to race today" , went in with "the big boys" and yes "this other horse" is something quite out of the ordinary. As the master of Warren Place stated I'll let my horse do the talking , enough said. Class? The Hannon's wouldn't know the meaning of the word. Hype was something this race never needed, Frankel and his trainer oozes it. Still looking forward to the 5L turnaroud at Ascot for the QE2..
 
Yeah:

"Hughesie said he was beat three out and thathe was never travelling on the downhill section of the track," said Richard Hannon. "I don't think it was his running - he's never hung across like that before."
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The horse was in trouble two out because he couldn't stay with Frankel without coming off the bridle - absolutely nothing to do with the track, it was the speed of the winner.
 
See The Stars beat Rip Van Winkle a few times, right? Frankel beat CC. I'd fancy CC to beat RVW. Does that make Frankel better than STS? Two smashing horses for different reasons. Lets see if Frankel is still winning on Arc weekend and then we can say that they have gone through the exact same pattern of races and can be directly compared.
 
Ardross said:
This is surely the best miler since the Brigadier.
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...I was thinking since Hawk Wing, but perhaps so... and it may not even be his best trip. If they are keeping him in training next season they may defer stepping him up until then.
 
granger said:
To a flat greenhorn.. How does he compare to Sea the Stars?
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If we're talking 3-y-os on RPRs Frankel has been upgraded to 137, a pound behind STS on 138 (although the 138 was achieved at 10 furlongs in the Irish Champion Stakes).

Although in many ways STS was a virtually flawless racehorse, Frankel is more of a rough diamond that no doubt has scope for even more improvement.
 
I think that the Hannon yard do have some grounds for concerns about Canford because he never really looked to be travelling at all even well before the business end . Frankel could be named the winner from about six out ! If you watch the race again look at Hughes' body language well before the business end .

I reiterate I cannot believe , in the absence of them finding something majorly wrong , that whatever ailed him affected the result - he clearly should have been further clear of Rio de La Plata than he was but I suspect that Frankel would have found plenty more had CC been at his very best anyway .

I suspect suny is right CC is a 130 horse but he ran into a 140 !
 
Bar the Bull said:
Is this really a debate?
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Brough Scott (among a host of others) has been pushing for this for years and to be frank I am sympathetic with many aspects of the argument. See link: http://www.broughscott.com/story.asp?NewsID=285
“The weight for age scale in these championship races is a sacred cow that has needed slaughtering for years”.
As much as I admire Sea The Stars, I also had something published arguing that the older horses may have been short-changed in his Arc. No horse can be called a true champion unless he has beaten the best of those in training off level weights.
 
Positives

It would encourage horses to be kept in training until they are fully mature.

John Magnier wouldn't like it.

Negatives

3 year olds would never/rarely race against their elders. Some would get injured or go wrong before they fully mature and it may never be seen how good they are.

Unlike National Hunt racing, Flat racing is primarily for people with a short attention span. When you see a flashy 2 year old you really can't be arsed waiting for 2 or 3 years to find out how good he might be.
 
Melendez said:
Positives

It would encourage horses to be kept in training until they are fully mature.

John Magnier wouldn't like it.

Negatives

3 year olds would never/rarely race against their elders. Some would get injured or go wrong before they fully mature and it may never be seen how good they are.

Unlike National Hunt racing, Flat racing is primarily for people with a short attention span. When you see a flashy 2 year old you really can't be arsed waiting for 2 or 3 years to find out how good he might be.
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A whole add on to this would be that the Classics should be run at four (as horses do not stop growing/developing until this age) and 2yos should not be raced at all due to their susceptibility to impact injuries, etc. This is backed up by a strong veterinary lobby.
The breeding industry are naturally very resistant to this in an overproduced industry, as they want to offload horses for racing as soon as possible.
 
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