Frost vs Dunne

granger said:
Have any of the TV ex jocks dared to dip a toe in the water and speak on the topic?
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No doubt it will get a mention on the TV racing either this afternoon or tomorrow so we'll see what the ex-jocks there say, although I understand Mick Fitz is firmly in Frost's camp (no smutty suggestion intended). Not so sure about Harvey. He strikes me as the type who would stand up for nobody.

Hopefully, the producers of the ITV show will have taken careful not of McCoy's comments and decide 'to use him less often'. I for one will be happy to see the back of him.

As for Bryony decamping to Ireland, wouldn't that be seen as running away? Does she seem that type?

Dunne is Irish (is he not?) so is the atmosphere in the weighing room over there not just as likely to be as 'rancid' over there?

I do hope ITV steps up and continues to send out the message that bullying is plain wrong and that, behind the scenes, they are there to facilitate some kind of support for victims.

I have no idea where RTV stand. I no longer watch it (due to technical issues).
 
reet hard said:
If a horse is ccontinually jumpinj left, then that's the jock who should plot their route accordingly.
Byrony didn't.
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Disagree Reet...It's the jockey behind who must anticipate what's about to happen. He had enough clues to avoid the sutuation. Wasn't it RJ who said it could easily have been avoided?

Worst bit of riding since Richard Pitman on Pendil was brought down by High Ken:)
 
reet hard said:
Your photo approaching the fatal fence is clearly contrived a couple of strides before the incident. Not the first time you've corrupted evidence to suit your own point,either.
I'm done with you.
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Its very difficult to post a series of still shots, but if you would outline the time on the video for where Bryony rode a shocker, I'll post them. I've posted three more instructive shots here for those who dont have time to watch the video.
Its not the first time you have claimed that I have 'corrupted evidence' to suit my point. Evidence of this please. Anytime I ask you clam up. It is funny how people who say "End of" are suiting themselves in the argument. Otherwise, you are just trying to bullshit your way out of losing an argument. "I'm done you with" :D Don't send you mam around please!

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Yesterday, Pay the Piper took out Cornerstone Lad at the third last at Newcastle. Just about put him through the wing. Thousands of incidence of interference happens every week far worse than Wiscracker in there. Anyone who watches racing as often as those on this forum do should understand that. Unless you are just trying to justify the bullying.

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In the very same race Lee Edwards cannoned into a horse jumping a fence causing it to fall. Neither seem worthy of a bullying campaign or enforcement, because they are the right type of characters. Far far worse happens ever second day (even in the same race) yet not the subject of bullying.
 
No sign of Chapman on ITV this afternoon. I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't promise to be impartial.

The PJA bloke did himself no favours [with the public] in his interview, effectively backing the apparent majority weighing-room opinion and status quo.
 
reet hard said:
But you had no problem with the ones set to deceive. Typical of your lack of integrity.
I've had enough - you're on my ignore list forthwith.
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I could explain how there is a limit of five images you can post. I choose to show a horse jumping to the left (Lee Edwards actually involved in a rivals horse to fall) and how Byrony's horse was just about straight - about roughly a half horse width jump to the left. (The width of a letter in the banner beneath the fence). I dont think there is anything dangerous about her ride. Not in the slightest. Four times I asked for what was so shocking about Bryony's ride, and you refuse to back up you bullshit. Just happy to pile on. Every tactic from "End of", "I'm done with you", then claiming that I tried to deceive, and now on ignore to refuse to accept you are wrong or show any reflection. Yeah, its the internet.

I'm happy to have others judge my integrity on here. It doesn't bother me one way or the other. I'm also happy to post this while on your ignore list. It's not for you. Its for those who might be convinced by your bullshit, who might think twice, if they are bothered.
 
Grey said:
I hope they’re listening, Barjon.

The racing world is very good at rallying round to help people in trouble. Hospital visits, supportive phone calls, Fund raising both discreet and public. Charlie Deutsch, the late Pat Smullen and many others can testify to how people in the weighing room stood by them in a moment of crisis. This side of their culture, which they are rightly proud of, is definitely not rancid.

But there is a negative side to it as well. Younger jockeys get put in their place, sometimes unfairly (at least Frankie apologised to Dylan Browne McMonagle), senior jockeys get to line up at the start where they want, juniors ones get told to make the running when no one else wants to. A lot of that goes on in other workplaces too, and it might be fairly said that you should have to earn your privileges. But this case was a lot more serious, both in scale and duration, and they need to acknowledge it.
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About the weighing room culture, I know its a wider societal issue, but there has been a lot of high profile racing suicides, depression, alcoholism and drug cases in the past decade. I'm sure there are more that are silent. Maybe the enforcer approach and settling the disputes amongst themselves isn't the best approach to take, and the good old days weren't in fact the good old days. This could represent a chance for the PJA to make some progress in getting often vulnerable individuals some support.
 
When I was 16 I was an apprentice electrician and got bullied most days so I left.
I admire Bryony for bringing it to everyones attention.that other young girl left racing and maybe the mental health of others had something to do with bullying,who knows,because a lot find it hard to talk about it.
I would like to think Bryony spoke to P.Nicholls before going ahead.
I think Dunne was just jealous of her success.

She could always move in with Patrick.im sure Willie would give her some good rides because she is good especially on chasers.

Talking about jumping across others Richard Johnson would always do it if being challenged at the last fence.
Just enough to put the other out of its stride.
 
Desperate Dan said:
One of the most moving aspects of the case was the testimony of the young amateur rider, Hannah Welch, who testified that Dunne`s behaviour towards her was a major factor in her giving up the sport. What sort of man verbally abuses and threatens young women (20 years or more younger than him)? I wonder how McCoy, Harvey and co would react if daughters of theirs were treated in such a manner?
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It starts at point to point level, there's a Devon rider who apparently revels in reducing young riders to tears when he's having a bad day.
 
Really? As someone who is heavily involved with the organisation at national level, this comment is a concern. Can you pm me details and I will get it looked into.
 
Chapman was totally lambasted on twitter earlier today/late last night for a comment he posted once the decision was known so not really surprised he wasn't on this afternoon's coverage although they obviously did speak to people about it. McCoy similarly apparently posted something anti B and pro grow a pair basically and has been similarly lambasted ever since. Ruby was on this afternoon, his comment was someone should have spoken up and told Dunne to shut up and pack it in basically, which went down well with the attending other presenters. Mick Fitz said something about the atmosphere in the weighting room always being this that and the other, and then 'Cesca asked him was that the same now, and he said ' how would I know I haven't been in there for 13 years.' Cue similar lambasting on SM after that comment.

I think it was Tom Scudamore who made comments about her 'silly' riding tactics.

STD coming out with the same, that is plain jealousy imho as he knows he's crap and says it a lot in the hope that someone will say 'no you're not Sammy , don't be so hard on yourself', and desperation in trying to make anyone look better than her. I've been waiting a long time to hear anyone contradict him.

Dunne will get a job with someone - old boys network - who you know, not what you know attitude of the racing fraternity. Notice he didn't ride Pretty Little Liar today as ban immediate so won't be able to ride whilst waiting an appeal, so if BHA take as long to sort that, the suspension period will be over.

I didn't realise there were actually 7 charges... I had an argument with someone on Twitter that the worst, almost, aspect of this was that there were 4, and I did caveat that with at least 4, so would indicate there were more as 'lesser' events probably not included/recorded, so that does make it far worse if possible in my eyes as that to me indicates a sustained and thought out campaign by him. Very much deliberate and not always attributable to a heat of the moment exchange , a la Italian G** having a effing session on horsewalk at Ascot at the apprentice.

I really hope B does not go to Ireland for selfish reasons, but it will look as if she's running away, and she has a decent career over here so think she shouldn't go even if given the option. As long as those trainers who use her now stand by her at least, will give her something to focus on. The reception she got at Sandown was, as previously said, was fantastic. I hear the same happened at Warwick yesterday. Not all racing crowds are that au fait probably with the case, or who Dunne is, but a lot of them like her a lot and showed whose side they were on in both instances.

Nice piece by Neil King doing rounds on Twitter who says if any of what happened in a shop, factory he'd have been sacked on the spot with no recourse whatsoever. The weighing room is no different and should have no protection from work place laws which protect the individual.

A lot of jockeys really need to look to themselves and change their behaviour, even if the worst they did was nothing.
 
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G-G your comment that Neil King made re had it happened in any other workplace is spot on.

Can you imagine if he had exposed himself in the middle of a large office? He would have been accosted by security and instantly dismissed for gross misconduct. Years ago I took a bit of time out from racing (think as a result of one too many times standing above that parapet......:rolleyes: and temped in Cambridge. While there I used to regale them with stories of my life within the racing industry. They were for the main part absolutely appalled that things like that went on...and this was 25 years ago. So many of them asked why I hadn’t said anything but of course I had and that’s why I was taking time out as I was almost certainly blacklisted for a while.

When I look back now on exactly what I and many other girls had to put up with, some of it really is quite shocking. But it very much was the norm....and the banter? Well you just put up and shut up. And you become immune to a lot of it too.
 
https://www.sportinglife.com/racing...-get-involved-join-a-syndicate-handicap-chase

The above is the race after which Byrony says that Dunne said "You're a f***ing whore, you're a dangerous c*** and if you ever f***ing murder (cut across) me like that again, I'll murder you." The fence attendant heard part of the conversation including the ******* slut bit. Adam Wedge said it was nothing out of the ordinary.

Strange that its Wisecracker and Cillian's Well again. (I thought it was the Southwell instance they were referring to any time they were mentioned.) This is an even more blatant case of bullying. As Dunne admitted in the Southwell instance, 'it might have been a case of road rage' at least showing some recognition that he was unreasonable and looking for a scapegoat when a horse you ride has died is understandable. At Stratford, Wisecracker doesn't jump to the left at any stage, and I guess Robbie Dunne took exception to Bryony keeping Wisecracker in third place at -3.46 on the video. If its possibly anywhere else....It's lost on me.

She is 1.5l clear and Dunne doesn't have to snatch up, do anything other than ride his race. If that's the threshold for dangerous riding, its Dunne who is a snowflake, looking for an excuse to bully and enabled by cowards.
 
HawkWing said:
At Stratford, Wisecracker doesn't jump to the left at any stage, and I guess Robbie Dunne took exception to Bryony keeping Wisecracker in third place at -3.46 on the video. If its possibly anywhere else....It's lost on me.
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It's probably the water jump (end of the home straight, first circuit).
 
reet hard said:
If a horse is continually jumping left, then that's the jock who should plot their route accordingly.
Byrony didn't.
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Wisecracker jumped violently left on occasion in his races well before Byrony picked up the rides. He has a tendency to hang his head to the right when he comes under pressure, and jinks sharply left as if to correct his legs just before the jump.

https://www.sportinglife.com/racing.../530463/jigsaw-sports-branding-handicap-chase

A good example here; 14:15 Southwell Monday 24 June 2019...2 out (-0.34 clock) Kielan Woods riding....
 
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It seems to me people are mixing two seperate issues up. As a rider is one thing as a cry baby is another,

She would ride Dunne to sleep IMO but telling tales out of school I will never agree with
 
Tanlic said:
It seems to me people are mixing two seperate issues up. As a rider is one thing as a cry baby is another,

She would ride Dunne to sleep IMO but telling tales out of school I will never agree with
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Yeah, a woman physically threatened by a bloke and called a fukcing slut should never take it further. Just zip it and get on with your job.
 
In the week of my 16th birthday, at my first racing job I was raped by one of the lads. By the time I was 18 I was in a job putting up with the trainer groping me and making lewd remarks any time he could get me on my own - I stayed purely because I loved the horses and wanted to make their lives a bit better if I could. I even went along with it in the hope that would make it stop - it didn’t.

I was young - it was different times. Women were shown the same amount of respect that tanlic has for them on this thread. The lady jockeys didn’t get treated much better - the assumption was because we rode horses we were up for riding anything that felt like it. I don’t know if I’d have the guts to do what Briony did these days even with the knowledge that most people have dragged themselves out of the 1950s - it takes actual bravery to start something you know you’ll have to see through to the end, regardless of what the end actually is. There’s still the dilemma of is there any point - that’s why Kirsty had such an issue asking for views on the situation with the guy she worked for - and to see so many of you men back us up gives a huge amount of confidence to do what’s right.

It’s not telling tales out of school - it’s standing up for your self respect, your pride and standing up to someone who is out to belittle you and humiliate you in the only way he has - it’s all about putting the little woman in her place and it’s wrong. It’s not just wrong now - it’s always been wrong but it’s only in the last few years that women have been able to be listened to and supported.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Tanlic said:
I must have missed the bit where an independent source said I heard Dunne call her a slut.....pray tell
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Here it is, just something else you can cast aside as not mattering a jot.

A fence attendant present during Robbie Dunne’s alleged verbal attack on Bryony Frost following a race at Stratford described the incident as “beyond memorable” and “very aggressive” during day three of a British Horseracing Authority disciplinary hearing.

The hearing, which is being held at High Holborn in London, relates to seven individual charges brought against Dunne for prejudicial conduct and violent and threatening behaviour.

The jockey denies all charges of prejudicial conduct and two of the three of violent and threatening behaviour, with the majority of the incidents in question taking place on racecourses in 2020.

The attendant, who gave evidence via video call but was not named, has worked on British racecourses and point-to-point tracks for 14 years and was present during an alleged altercation at Stratford on July 8 last year, where Dunne is accused of having said: “You’re a f*** ing whore, you’re a dangerous c *** and if you ever f*** ing murder (cut across) me like that again, I’ll murder you.”

The witness in question told the hearing he recalled Dunne pulling up his mount and then calling Frost “a f*** ing slut” and was adamant of the details of the conversation when under cross-examination from Dunne’s legal representative, Roderick Moore.
 
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